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JoeE13
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2018
Posts: 64
Location: Hatboro PA
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 Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:40 pm Post subject: Best path for max low end torque |
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I will be upgrading my motor this winter, spec Formula 1600, so I am doing my research. I run the car in Autocross so I need a wide power band. Should I supercharge or or go n/a with 2000+ cubes.
My runs are typically 60 to 75 seconds long will get between 6 to 8 in a day its a trailer car so dont need reliability as a priority.
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26788
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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| JoeE13 wrote: |
I will be upgrading my motor this winter, spec Formula 1600, so I am doing my research. I run the car in Autocross so I need a wide power band. Should I supercharge or or go n/a with 2000+ cubes.
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BOTH, of course. Just kidding Want a TON of low end?.... be careful what you wish for!!
I'd go 2000cc and high compression, probably even keep the carburetor. More compression does not add a ton of power to the middle, but you get faster response, and a lot more above ANd below the actual powerband. The thing is light, you won't need much
BTW what is that carburetor and....... is it working well for you?
DCNF? |
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JoeE13
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2018
Posts: 64
Location: Hatboro PA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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| Not sure thought maybe a weber. I am going to get a dyno run to see what I have before final decision. Right now low end is very poor, it is cammed with a 4k to 6k power band. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26788
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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| oh.....I can imagine that being, not very good. |
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Howard 111
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Joined: July 09, 2005
Posts: 1827
Location: Virginia
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Krochus
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2017
Posts: 892
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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| Big motor AND boost for maximum sketchiness! |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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Big displacement through stroke ,short rods and a cam/induction system that is meant for the RPM range you want to be in.
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clonebug
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Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 4027
Location: NW Washington
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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| Krochus wrote: |
| Big motor AND boost for maximum sketchiness! |
I spent the day at the Kent, Wa. VW nationals yesterday.....
I watched a big stroker with turbo run a high 15 second quarter on his worst run and and his best run was a 14.45 second run. Averages were about 14.70 seconds.
I also watched a stock 1600 with supercharger run from high sixteens to a best of 15.47 seconds.
Size does not dictate power or speed............
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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I'd go 2275cc with dual 44 IDFs. Instant throttle response. A 150hp engine would be practically unbeatable in that car.
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15308
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:51 am Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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A short stroke engine will always rev faster than a longer stroke engine. For autocross I'd build a 76X94 = 2109cc or at most a 78X94 = 2165cc. Spend the most you can on heads. Then you must carefully consider the gear ratio's.
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Ebel
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Joined: June 07, 2015
Posts: 564
Location: New york
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:00 am Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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| I think the carb is a progressive turned sideways. At least the throttle shafts seem to be the same style used on a progressive though there were some carbs made like that which opened simultaneously. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:36 am Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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| Do you have ANY parameters you must stay within to keep you within a certain class, or is this “build what you want” for a Mod class? |
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Bugsy61
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Peoria, Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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| Short duration camshaft will make big torque for you. Something between 275 and 282 advertised duration. Have it made on a wide lobe separation angle, like 112. EFI is also the way to go on a road course. You'll have no fuel starvation issues that way in the twisties. |
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JoeE13
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2018
Posts: 64
Location: Hatboro PA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| Do you have ANY parameters you must stay within to keep you within a certain class, or is this “build what you want” for a Mod class? |
Mine is build what I want, I just drive for fun. Big sticky tires, acceleration and g force turns make my day especially on big AutoX courses like Pocono
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JoeE13
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2018
Posts: 64
Location: Hatboro PA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| A short stroke engine will always rev faster than a longer stroke engine. For autocross I'd build a 76X94 = 2109cc or at most a 78X94 = 2165cc. Spend the most you can on heads. Then you must carefully consider the gear ratio's. |
The gearing and transmission are next. Is there some sort of paddle shifting or sequential gearbox system for this type of setup? If I could operate within 3 gears smoothly up to 70+ mph and back to 2nd quickly at times it would be golden. |
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Ebel
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2015
Posts: 564
Location: New york
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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| I don't think you can get any sequential shifters for a stock tranny. There might be one for bus transmissions. I think they make them for Mendola transmissions but they are pretty expensive. |
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Chad1376
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Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 1435
Location: Henderson, Nevada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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If you go the dual carb route - measure here. The chassis tubes look like they could interfere with carb placement.
Consider a dry sump to keep the engine oiled during corners. I'm incorporating an Accusump in my build, in case the pickup sucks air.
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Last edited by Chad1376 on Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7216
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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JoeE13
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2018
Posts: 64
Location: Hatboro PA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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| Chad1376 wrote: |
If you go the dual carb route - measure here. The chassis tubes look like they could interfere with carb placement.
Consider a dry sump to keep the engine oiled during corners. I'm incorporating an Accusump in my build, in case the pickup sucks air.
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I checked and the pic is deceiving. If I look down from the frame is to the inside of the intake ports on the heads. |
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7216
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Best path for max low end torque |
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Apparently no room for dual carbs unless they are on type 3 manifolds, and that´s not particularly good.
My solution due to space restrictions would be a purpose built 1914 with an isolated runner intake, a dual 40 mm Dell/IDF modified for boot and an Eaton M45 to feed it. There´s an easy 150 -170 hp with an explosive lower end pick up if built right.
T |
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