Syncro front shock access hole?

[MarkWard]

Hello, I'm in the process of converting a 2wd vanagon to 4wd. To unbolt the front shocks on the 2wd camper, you remove the nut on the top of the shock from the van by working through the fender well.

The syncro tintop had some handy access hole under the seats. I'm trying to figure out if these are necessary. The camper has seat swivels so the access from inside is limited compared to the tintop where you can slide the seat forward to access the shock. I can't see where these holes are necessary, but thought I'd run it by the members. Is there a situation where you can't remove the front shock working through the fenderwell on a syncro? All other suspension is stock. Thanks
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[davevickery]

I don’t think you need them. People doing struts sometimes use a tool or piece of pipe to help line up the end of the shock because with tension on it, it sometimes doesn’t want to go in. I just use a ratchet strap to pull the strut in whatever direction I need.

[Pcforno]

If the suspension is stock, it’s dead easy to align it, hole or not

[MarkWard]

Thank you. Do both the tin top and camper Syncro's have this access? I wonder if it was required on the assembly line. Sure would be nice to know the engineer' thinking.
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[Pcforno]

Yes the camper has it too. You can still get to it if you remove the central portion of the swivel seats, but in my experience it’s not necessary to use the hole.

[shagginwagon83]

On my 2wd I did not go through seat. I had to use a wrench to access the top shock bolt. I could not get a socket on it so I could not torque it down to specs but IIRC it was like 20ftlb torque
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan

[tencentlife]

If you start adding lift the ability to use a tool thru that hole to grab the shock spindle and guide and pull it up thru the hole becomes more and more desirable, because even with that method it's an un-fun procedure to do alone. It's easy to make the tool of some thick-walled tubing, run an M10 x 1.0 tap into one end, make it about 8-10" long, drill across the opposite end to put a pin thru and make a T-handle. Use it like it shows in the book.
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[Zeitgeist 13]

I found the hole indispensable when guiding the top of the shock into place. If you have the grommets and an appropriate size hole saw, then I don't see a downside in going that route.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[tencentlife]

My grommets were old and stiff and wouldn't stay in so I just tape over the holes.
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Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[MsTaboo]

I've done it both ways and found using the hole with a tube much easier.
In my case it's just an aluminum tube I used to align the shock rod through the hole in the shock tower.
Here are some pics for those who may not know what we're talking about.

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[MarkWard]

Well, I did what I should have done before posting. I looked in the manual to see the reference made. The tool being described above is VW 3141. I think where it would be necessary would be with non gas charged shocks. On a conventional hydraulic shock, the shaft might have a tendency to sink into the shock and the design would be such that getting the shaft to full extension and through the upper shock mount would be difficult. The 2 wd spring seats on the control arm, not the shock, so it might be easier to deal with.


The other tool shown is a VW 3017A, which accounts for why the hole is so large. VW intended on the syncro to use this tool in conjunction with an allen wrench to hold the shock shaft from spinning while you undid the upper shock retaining nut with 3017A. I have not seen vanagon shocks that have an allen hole machined into the end of the shock shaft for some time. The ones I have come across have 2 wrench flats that a 6mm open end wrench would grip.

So, installing the holes are probably the way to go, but without the tools and the handy allen ended shock shaft, probably not going to get used installing my gas shocks.

Its too bad, VW did not do more of a macpherson strut type of setup on the syncro, where you could remove the shock assembly complete. Lots of other vehicles running around with that setup. Probably because they were using the 2wd upper shock mount.
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[tencentlife]

Gas-charged shocks don't push back that hard, they compress easily during this job. Having the tool to grab the rod and guide it up is a big help. Never saw a need for the 2nd tool, it takes little torque to deal with the top nut and the flats on the rod end are more than sufficient, I'd rather have the flats than an in-hex there.

[Steve Arndt]

This is attractive just because it makes it more like a "strut" to install on the van.

https://burleymotorsports.net/product/bilstien-coilover-front-suspension-kit/

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Steve
Steve's 87 Syncro project

[shagginwagon83]

I've always been intrigued by that strap
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan

[SyncroHead]

[Pcforno]

“There's a supposition you see stated often when people talk about engineering, the notion that every design decision was made for a reason, and if there was a better way to do something it would have been done that way. Neither of those ideas can withstand logical scrutiny. The first is nominally true, decisions are invariably made for some reason, but it doesn't mean it's a good one. The second assumes that engineering departments are all-knowing with unlimited imagination, which is absurd.[/quote]

Well said tencent!!
That should be a sticky!

I am so sick of the “appeal to authority” fallacious arguments I hear around here as if engineers are some omnipotent beings who have procured our vans from the nether regions of the cosmos and represent perfection of the natural world


Before I became a doctor I worked in evolutionary biology and there was a fallacious idea shared by many laymen that everything in evolution and nature was there for a reason - some sort of adaptive perfection. It couldn’t be further from the case. Just like in engineering there exists a long history of accumulated errors, junk, historical constraints, maladaptive peaks, evolutionary dead ends, junk DNA, and parts leftover from millennial ago that serve no purpose whatsoever, or have had no selection pressure to eliminate them. No different in any human-based process

[levi]

This comparitive analogy of biological evolution and vanagon creation gives my van a more humanistic feel.

I think I'll be more compassionate now about it's next breakdown.
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[Zeitgeist 13]

Have we established whether these all knowing German enginerds designed air to flow up or downward through this access hole?
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[tencentlife]

[MsTaboo]