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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12455
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:44 pm Post subject: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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Recently I was asked why the generator is clocked at 2 o’clock but you see some at 10 o’clock and why the strap is should be installed a certain way. To begin with VW put the engine together and arranged these items for a reason although you see things thrown together with no thought as to why or how.
It really begins with the backing plate on the generator and the cooling port needs to point down this removes heat from generator. Now even if it’s installed correctly and generator gets clocked wrong that puts the cooling port at 9 o’clock instead of 6 so there’s not one but two ways to mess this up.
Generator clocked at 10 moves the wires D+ and D- to a place where they interfere with accelerator pump linkage and creates a chaffing point on the wires which could lead to arcing sparking. If it’s like this now I’d correct soon.
The strap is another item that gets thrown on any old way but upon closer examination it’s a pre formed piece and has bends in two places to fit the pedestal, install it wrong and it stresses the clamp and breaks eventually. Again it creates a chaffing point for the wiring harness if positioned straight up. Correct would be 4 o’clock position. These pics may help
This is correct orientation, looks like 2 o’clock
So here’s the inner backing plate my finger is pointing to cooling port
Even though I’m holding it upside down if you look left you can see the two places where preformed clamp fits. It’s nice to assemble machines the way they were from factory but it’s better when you understand why. The aftermarket clamps I’ve seen are thinner gauge steel and are perfectly round. Aftermarket strikes again.
Last edited by Zundfolge1432 on Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76770 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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Yes, terminals at 2:00. The strap doesn't matter. I usually have the bolt under the generator/alternator for cosmetic reasons only. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12455
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12455
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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Try as you might meaning is lost. One more time the OEM clamp is preformed with two bends ok ? installed wrong stresses the clamp, can it be any more plain than that? |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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The only thing I do is put the bolt the other way. the reason is flat rate, sometimes you get lucky and don't have to hold the bolt while spinning off the nut
time is money _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12455
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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Yes time is money and attention to detail denotes professionalism. In this case there is a reason VW installed these a certain way and it wasn’t for cosmetic reasons if it were you’d see em every which way wouldn’t you. |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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And the reason is?
(It's Ok to elaborate, I didn't post a pic) _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12455
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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Rick I give up I only did this because someone sent me a private message but I thought I’d say it here instead. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31274 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
Yes time is money and attention to detail denotes professionalism. In this case there is a reason VW installed these a certain way and it wasn’t for cosmetic reasons if it were you’d see em every which way wouldn’t you. |
Agree 100% _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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bnam Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006 Posts: 2931 Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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@Zundfolge -- I have to admit I did not pay much thought to the strap orientation until you had posted about it in another thread. Thank you!
On my KG engine that I'm putting back together, I took the time to re-preform the strap to the correct shape. I found that with the strap shaped to align to the contours, it became easier to refit the strap in the same location after loosening. I did shape it so that the nut is above -- to redice chances of dropping it and to make tightening and removal easier.
Thanks again -- please keep posting your tutorials. _________________ 1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL |
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mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 6985 Location: Clyde, TX
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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The bolt is installed from the top of the strap with the nut on the bottom because that configuration provides the least danger of snagging something on it while working in that area. _________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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AlmostHeavenWV_VW Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017 Posts: 1965 Location: WV
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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Just wanted to add a bit of clarity for the readers regarding the location of the backing plate with the cooling port: it is present within the fan shroud (can't really see it with everything assembled in the car and the cooling fan on)
Assembly is this: (all pics looking from fan shroud side of generator- pics from Zund's assembly pictorial guide)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649445
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Generator:
Outer backing plate
Stiffening ring:
Inner backing plate (with the vent at 6 o'clock)
Cooling fan installed (can't see the vent much anymore)
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Hope that helps the visual learners like myself _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor |
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AlmostHeavenWV_VW Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017 Posts: 1965 Location: WV
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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Now my question for the class:
How difficult would it be for one to 'rotate' the generator to the proper position 2 o'clock position, while engine and fan shroud in the car? _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31274 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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AlmostHeavenWV_VW wrote: |
Now my question for the class:
How difficult would it be for one to 'rotate' the generator to the proper position 2 o'clock position, while engine and fan shroud in the car? |
After removing the belt, this would be straightforward IF one can access and remove the four mounting bolts/screws that hold the plate to the fan shroud and then rotate that assembly. But the fan shroud might need to be raised a few inches to access these screws. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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AlmostHeavenWV_VW Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2017 Posts: 1965 Location: WV
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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Cusser wrote: |
AlmostHeavenWV_VW wrote: |
Now my question for the class:
How difficult would it be for one to 'rotate' the generator to the proper position 2 o'clock position, while engine and fan shroud in the car? |
After removing the belt, this would be straightforward IF one can access and remove the four mounting bolts/screws that hold the plate to the fan shroud and then rotate that assembly. But the fan shroud might need to be raised a few inches to access these screws. |
Thanks, Cusser _________________ 1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12455
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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Because this is a tight area you may need to resort to cheats like this. Here you are using putty wrapped around bolt head then stuck to ratcheting 10mm box end wrench. The final solution however? Remove the 4 studs in the case that hold the generator pedestal, you’ll replace the studs with bolts which makes servicing or R&R much easier because it pulls straight out the front.
Wrap the bolt head with putty
Install into the wrench, now you can line up with the hole after installing top two bolts use a finger and to press on bolthead and activate the ratchet, other hand to turn clockwise, tedious but it does work.
The bottom bolts are hard to reach but I’d give it a shot or loosen fan shroud or remove pedestal studs. |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12820 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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Just be careful with this method. A lot of those ratcheting wrenches are not reversible other than flipping it over, this can lead to frustration if a bolt is longer than the space you have to back it out. Now you have to cut the bolt to get your wrench back. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Dark Earth Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015 Posts: 1054
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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This video shows the hard way to do it. Still, it doesn't look that bad.
Link
_________________ My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31274 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap |
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I also have used a hacksaw to cut a slot in those hex-head bolts so I would have access with a screwdriver in some instances. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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