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Orientation of generator and hold down strap
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Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

Recently I was asked why the generator is clocked at 2 o’clock but you see some at 10 o’clock and why the strap is should be installed a certain way. To begin with VW put the engine together and arranged these items for a reason although you see things thrown together with no thought as to why or how.

It really begins with the backing plate on the generator and the cooling port needs to point down this removes heat from generator. Now even if it’s installed correctly and generator gets clocked wrong that puts the cooling port at 9 o’clock instead of 6 so there’s not one but two ways to mess this up.

Generator clocked at 10 moves the wires D+ and D- to a place where they interfere with accelerator pump linkage and creates a chaffing point on the wires which could lead to arcing sparking. If it’s like this now I’d correct soon.

The strap is another item that gets thrown on any old way but upon closer examination it’s a pre formed piece and has bends in two places to fit the pedestal, install it wrong and it stresses the clamp and breaks eventually. Again it creates a chaffing point for the wiring harness if positioned straight up. Correct would be 4 o’clock position. These pics may help
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is correct orientation, looks like 2 o’clock


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So here’s the inner backing plate my finger is pointing to cooling port
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Even though I’m holding it upside down if you look left you can see the two places where preformed clamp fits. It’s nice to assemble machines the way they were from factory but it’s better when you understand why. The aftermarket clamps I’ve seen are thinner gauge steel and are perfectly round. Aftermarket strikes again.


Last edited by Zundfolge1432 on Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

Yes, terminals at 2:00. The strap doesn't matter. I usually have the bolt under the generator/alternator for cosmetic reasons only.
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Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

Try as you might meaning is lost. One more time the OEM clamp is preformed with two bends ok ? installed wrong stresses the clamp, can it be any more plain than that?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

The only thing I do is put the bolt the other way. the reason is flat rate, sometimes you get lucky and don't have to hold the bolt while spinning off the nut
time is money Wink
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I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

Yes time is money and attention to detail denotes professionalism. In this case there is a reason VW installed these a certain way and it wasn’t for cosmetic reasons Very Happy if it were you’d see em every which way wouldn’t you.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

And the reason is?
(It's Ok to elaborate, I didn't post a pic) Laughing
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I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.


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maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

Rick I give up Very Happy I only did this because someone sent me a private message but I thought I’d say it here instead.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
Yes time is money and attention to detail denotes professionalism. In this case there is a reason VW installed these a certain way and it wasn’t for cosmetic reasons Very Happy if it were you’d see em every which way wouldn’t you.


Agree 100%
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

@Zundfolge -- I have to admit I did not pay much thought to the strap orientation until you had posted about it in another thread. Thank you!

On my KG engine that I'm putting back together, I took the time to re-preform the strap to the correct shape. I found that with the strap shaped to align to the contours, it became easier to refit the strap in the same location after loosening. I did shape it so that the nut is above -- to redice chances of dropping it and to make tightening and removal easier.

Thanks again -- please keep posting your tutorials.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

The bolt is installed from the top of the strap with the nut on the bottom because that configuration provides the least danger of snagging something on it while working in that area.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

Just wanted to add a bit of clarity for the readers regarding the location of the backing plate with the cooling port: it is present within the fan shroud (can't really see it with everything assembled in the car and the cooling fan on)

Assembly is this: (all pics looking from fan shroud side of generator- pics from Zund's assembly pictorial guide)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649445
Quote:

Generator:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Outer backing plate
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Stiffening ring:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Inner backing plate (with the vent at 6 o'clock)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Cooling fan installed (can't see the vent much anymore)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Hope that helps the visual learners like myself
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

Now my question for the class:



How difficult would it be for one to 'rotate' the generator to the proper position 2 o'clock position, while engine and fan shroud in the car?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

AlmostHeavenWV_VW wrote:
Now my question for the class:



How difficult would it be for one to 'rotate' the generator to the proper position 2 o'clock position, while engine and fan shroud in the car?


After removing the belt, this would be straightforward IF one can access and remove the four mounting bolts/screws that hold the plate to the fan shroud and then rotate that assembly. But the fan shroud might need to be raised a few inches to access these screws.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
AlmostHeavenWV_VW wrote:
Now my question for the class:
How difficult would it be for one to 'rotate' the generator to the proper position 2 o'clock position, while engine and fan shroud in the car?


After removing the belt, this would be straightforward IF one can access and remove the four mounting bolts/screws that hold the plate to the fan shroud and then rotate that assembly. But the fan shroud might need to be raised a few inches to access these screws.


Thanks, Cusser
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

Because this is a tight area you may need to resort to cheats like this. Here you are using putty wrapped around bolt head then stuck to ratcheting 10mm box end wrench. The final solution however? Remove the 4 studs in the case that hold the generator pedestal, you’ll replace the studs with bolts which makes servicing or R&R much easier because it pulls straight out the front.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Wrap the bolt head with putty
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Install into the wrench, now you can line up with the hole after installing top two bolts use a finger and to press on bolthead and activate the ratchet, other hand to turn clockwise, tedious but it does work.

The bottom bolts are hard to reach but I’d give it a shot or loosen fan shroud or remove pedestal studs.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

Just be careful with this method. A lot of those ratcheting wrenches are not reversible other than flipping it over, this can lead to frustration if a bolt is longer than the space you have to back it out. Now you have to cut the bolt to get your wrench back.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

This video shows the hard way to do it. Still, it doesn't look that bad.


Link

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

I also have used a hacksaw to cut a slot in those hex-head bolts so I would have access with a screwdriver in some instances.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Orientation of generator and hold down strap Reply with quote

After several broken generator straps, I now use these-

http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2182.htm

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Look a little nicer, and stainless steel so no rust. Captive bolt makes tightening easy too.



The slotted hex bolt is a really neat trick, I'll be doing that for sure. I've been using M6x12mm Hex head bolts for both the generator backing plate and fan shroud for years, much easier to deal with than the typical tin screws for these locations, as well as underneath the engine for the sleds and other bits. Slotting them sounds like a versatile and useful idea.
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