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sshulk
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2008
Posts: 694
Location: Succasunna, NJ
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 Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:05 am Post subject: How do u stop rust |
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Just curious what u all do to stop rust. I know por 15 works great on rusty metal but not on new. I was looking into the possibility of a pan off resto and I’m curious what you all use to prevent rusting on new pans and old pans. Thanks. Max.
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AZSCAWPION
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2018
Posts: 66
Location: ARIZONA
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smeed
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2017
Posts: 17
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:17 am Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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| From the project logs I've read: If you're using POR15 on new metal you need to prep it well (look up their prep guide) or else it just flakes off. |
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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Hatracks
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2016
Posts: 659
Location: Renton, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:56 am Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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| smeed wrote: |
| From the project logs I've read: If you're using POR15 on new metal you need to prep it well (look up their prep guide) or else it just flakes off. |
The best way I have found if you are doing new metal and want to POR15 it is to degrease it (POR 15 Degreaser), sandblast it, and wash it again (with metal prep or whatever is in the instructions). Whatever cosmoline or rust inhibitor they put on for the trip from China really sticks to the metal and it may look or feel clean put the POR will peel right off after it cures.
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:21 am Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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there are many paints that are good for this application. I prefer a two part primer like DP easy to use, fast curing unlike POR 15.
Of course any paint may fail if exposed to standing water
so prevent leaks. Seal sealer is critical to use on seams, a good urathane sealer is long lastings. some sealers are full of fillers such as talc and hence absorb water, these are not made for exterior use
for underside, again DP primer, followed by a thick textured pan paint to resist road debris. If your roads are salted, all bets are off. the pan would be the least of concern, the body has plenty of salt damage prone areas.
Bug On!
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VW_Jimbo 
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9955
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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| sshulk wrote: |
| Just curious what u all do to stop rust. I know por 15 works great on rusty metal but not on new. I was looking into the possibility of a pan off resto and I’m curious what you all use to prevent rusting on new pans and old pans. Thanks. Max. |
Hey mam! Interesting question. There are alot of opinions on rust prevention and rust remediation. Your question is two seperate answers.
POR or Paint On Rust, is a decent product. There are several like it. Choose one and follow the directions to the letter. It is used on rusted panels with VERY little rust damage. Meaning it is still a solid piece of steel, not pitted badly, no holes, no failing welds. If you have any one of those three issues, it is time to cut out the cancer and weld in new steel.
Cut out the old shit, along with all of the rust. I then saturate that area with vinegar. I place cotton towels onto the areas and drench them. Wait 12 hours and remove. I then wipe them down with acetone and spray a rust converting primer, so that any remaining rust is taken care of.
It is then onto fitting the new panel, sticthing it in, grinding down the joints, finish sanding those joints, then priming.
Thats a rough idea of the process. Experience sometimes demands different approaches. That experience is gained through YEARS of batteling RUST!
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DAWGNME
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2012
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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Check out eastwood.com
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:45 am Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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The best way is to remove all existing rust and any coatings down to bare metal and prime it with epoxy primer. Epoxy is your base coat for all other paints or coatings.
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SdAufKla
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2016
Posts: 103
Location: Piedmont Piney Woods, SC
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:17 am Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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Just recently did my chassis with POR-15:
I think if you follow the directions it's probably no harder or more difficult to use than any other product. I don't think there's any sort of magic bullet that will give long-lasting results without thorough prep work.
I have some details of what I did with my POR-15 job posted up on my build starting on page 3:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=40
I started out with a mix of old and new metal (old tunnel and new floor pans), sand blasted the whole thing, then followed POR's instructions. |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:28 am Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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| DAWGNME wrote: |
| Check out eastwood.com |
Eastwoods rust converter actually promotes rust under paint. It is horrible stuff, avoid it. I made that mistake once, had to have that crap blasted off the pan. it promoted deep pitting rust where there was none before.
Eastwood is a cheapo parts seller, instead get your rust treatment chemicals from a real coatings company like SEM, Dupont, PPG etc... these are companies that spend millions on R and D for the best products for real industrial users, and OEM manufacturers. Eastwood is simply a mail,order company with very little in R and D, with little knowledge of the coating industry. I spoke with their coating experts, and was taken back by how little they know, or how they kept selling a product that had numerous complaints about it failing. rather than make it right and stopping selling the poorly designed coatings, they kept selling them.
Using eastwoods rust converter had the same effect as coating unpainted steel with brine. I did numerous experiments with eastwoods rust converter and found no matter what, it promoted rust under the coating. and yes eastwood did admit it had a problem with it, but kept marketing it.
go for a rust converter, rust proofing chemical backed by a multibillion dollar chemical company, not a discount mail order house brand, yuck!
Bug On, without Eastwood Rust Converter, it is actually a rust promoter!
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bluebus86
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:33 am Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| The best way is to remove all existing rust and any coatings down to bare metal and prime it with epoxy primer. Epoxy is your base coat for all other paints or coatings. |
note some acid based converters can prevent some overcoated epoxies to not not cure. so check with the maker for compatibility. I have tested some epoxies over acid based washes or converters, and found in some cases, the top coat does not cure. A major manufacturer told me that yes, some products will not cure in an acidic environment.
always check compatibility, most major brands offer email or phone advice, and offer detailed material specification on the world wide interweb. do research, go to the manufacturerer, mistakes can be very expensive. only use supplies from major coating companies.
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sshulk
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2008
Posts: 694
Location: Succasunna, NJ
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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| SdAufKla wrote: |
Just recently did my chassis with POR-15:
I think if you follow the directions it's probably no harder or more difficult to use than any other product. I don't think there's any sort of magic bullet that will give long-lasting results without thorough prep work.
I have some details of what I did with my POR-15 job posted up on my build starting on page 3:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=40
I started out with a mix of old and new metal (old tunnel and new floor pans), sand blasted the whole thing, then followed POR's instructions. |
Did you use por 15 on all the suspension bolts and such, if so, does that affect them for later problems or adjusting? Or is the por 15 fairly thin? I’ve used it but only on my battery tray
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German Looker in the Making
73 Super Autostick OG paint Marina Blue
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8699
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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Rustoleum is fine and is likely better than whatever the factory used. Keep it dry and whatever you use should last 20 years or more.
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'69 Dune Buggy
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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| Q-Dog wrote: |
Rustoleum is fine and is likely better than whatever the factory used. Keep it dry and whatever you use should last 20 years or more.
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I used Rustoleum on my 1961 pan near 20 years ago, still pretty as new, covered up some rust that I wire wheeled clean, I used a small jam paint sprayer and thinned the paint as needed to spray.
Good stuff.
Bug On!
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traumaman
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2015
Posts: 49
Location: Minneapolis
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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Not sure of the best way to do it but I used a 2-part truck-bed liner on both sides of my new pans after they were welded in. Seems very durable, but only time will tell. My bug spends the winter stored, so it should last a long while.
I like POR-15 but was not interested in stripping it all down to bare metal. I scuffed it heavily, degreased it and applied the truck bed liner with a roller and brush. My kit was from Rustoleum, but there are many good ones. I would recommend using a 2-part product.
TM |
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SdAufKla
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2016
Posts: 103
Location: Piedmont Piney Woods, SC
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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| sshulk wrote: |
| Did you use por 15 on all the suspension bolts and such, if so, does that affect them for later problems or adjusting? Or is the por 15 fairly thin? I’ve used it but only on my battery tray |
If you look at the lower photo, what you see with the chassis is what I painted with the POR-15. I did mask off a number of areas, such as the seats for the rear stub-axel bearings, all the openings to the various operating cable tubes, the ends of the fuel line, etc.
Here's a happy snap of the chassis after I media blasted it and after the final cleaning and pre-painting prep. After the metal prep, I did wash the chassis one more time with Simple Green and allowed it to air-dry overnight (with a fan blowing on it). Note that there's no difference between the old metal and new floor pans after media blasting and applying the POR-15 Metal Prep:
So, everything you see here was spray painted with the POR-15 (total of three coats).
I also did the seam sealer before the reassembly:
No issues whatsoever with the seam sealer over the POR-15.
My experience is that the POR-15 is hard as a rock once it's cured. I've dropped tools and banged stuff on it a lot as I assembled the rolling chassis. I would recommend keeping it out of any threaded bolt holes or off the threads of any bolts. If you did get the POR-15 into a threaded area, I'd run a tap through to clean up the threads.
I haven't tried to remove any bolts that I painted over with it, but I'd think they'd come out if necessary. So, for example, I'm not worried that if at some time in the future I need or want to disassemble the rear swing arms that I will have any problems for the POR.
I did strip the paint and use a rust converter on the front axel beam, tie rods, steering knuckle, trailing arms, etc, and painted those with rattle can paints. However, I now wish I had done those parts with POR-15, too. The reason why I didn't was that I didn't have my sand blaster yet, so for next time, I'll do all the chassis and suspension with the POR-15.
I'm really considering using POR-15 on my factory rims when I get ready to restore them. It's so darned hard that I think it will be super durable.
The only quirky thing is that the first color coat has to be shot over the last coat of POR-15 before it cures hard. This is the same requirement between coats of POR-15, too. POR-15 recommends this, or if the POR-15 has been allowed to cure, it has to be completely scuffed up with sand paper before any other top coats are applied. However, after the first color coat on top of the POR-15 has been applied, then subsequent color coats are applied according to the color paint manufacturer's recommendations.
POR-15 also makes a bunch of color top coats, so I might use their silver on my rims. |
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DAWGNME
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2012
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: How do u stop rust |
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appreciate the heads up bluebus86
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