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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
and a heater is a LONG term commitment (well unless it's a disposable Chinese unit) that a quality unit and a one fuel camper heat solution just makes cents.
I've done the dual fuel, and it's not all sunshine and posies. |
Aside from the glow plug failure -- which was anticipated because it's a known issue -- I've had no issues with my "disposable" Chinese heater. Others in the UK, AU, NZ and elsewhere have run these units for 12+ hours a day every day for months at a time with no real problems to speak of.
The dual fuel is a rather minor drawback IMHO. Given how we hear from people having trouble getting the onboard OE propane tank filled -- needed for a Propex -- I don't see how the "hassle" of sourcing diesel is a big deal even for gasoline-fueled campers.
The Eberspachers and Webastos are well-built units and set the Gold Standard for these types of heaters, but they are NOT complicated pieces of machinery, and with modern manufacturing technology and micro-controllers they shouldn't cost as much as they do, even if built in the Black Forest by elves. Hell, the BN4 didn't even *have* an ECU as such just some switches and a couple of relays... |
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Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4408
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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A note for our collection of knowledge here.
My 2kw heater has the simple controller with a twist dial. The on and off words are backlit, and the backlighting does not time out, it's always lit. Likely a low draw LED. Even so, if I keep this in my SB, I will have the power source run from a relay (like a defrost relay or hard start relay) that will be active when switched on, probably by the key. The SB sits for long periods and want to avoid even a small parasitic drain.
I would imagine that the controllers with a remote capability would also have a constant draw to receive the remote command to turn on.
In my Westy I will want the heater to run even without the key in the van. My plan is to install the house battery (which is not in there) and run the heater from that side of the system.
In my camper battery systems I place an automatic switch that keeps the ("tow") vehicle 12v separated from the ("trailer") house 12v unless there is a charging level of current present. This keeps the house system from draining the starting battery leaving you stranded. It's like those RV solenoids but without the huge power draw those eat up. It is a relay that opens, disconnecting the tow vehicle feed from the battery bank when the voltage drops below a charging situation (TBCM-40A Trailer Battery Charging Module 40Amp - Atkinson Electronics).
http://atkinson-electronics2.mybigcommerce.com/tbcm-40a-trailer-battery-charging-module-40amp/
This keeps the bank from depleting the tow vehicle if I leave it hooked up while boon-docking. When the tow vehicle alternator starts up, or when the solar provides a charging mode, the relay closes connecting the tow vehicle to the battery bank again. So my Westy vehicle and house system will be set up like that and my heater will be powered from the house side.
_________________
1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
| SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
| Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
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Gruppe B
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 1331
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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| tristessa wrote: |
| danfromsyr wrote: |
and a heater is a LONG term commitment (well unless it's a disposable Chinese unit) that a quality unit and a one fuel camper heat solution just makes cents.
I've done the dual fuel, and it's not all sunshine and posies. |
Aside from the glow plug failure -- which was anticipated because it's a known issue -- I've had no issues with my "disposable" Chinese heater. Others in the UK, AU, NZ and elsewhere have run these units for 12+ hours a day every day for months at a time with no real problems to speak of.
The dual fuel is a rather minor drawback IMHO. Given how we hear from people having trouble getting the onboard OE propane tank filled -- needed for a Propex -- I don't see how the "hassle" of sourcing diesel is a big deal even for gasoline-fueled campers.
The Eberspachers and Webastos are well-built units and set the Gold Standard for these types of heaters, but they are NOT complicated pieces of machinery, and with modern manufacturing technology and micro-controllers they shouldn't cost as much as they do, even if built in the Black Forest by elves. Hell, the BN4 didn't even *have* an ECU as such just some switches and a couple of relays... |
What are you doing for the burned out glow pins? Are you using an Espar replacement or putting in another Chinese glow pin?
https://www.amazon.com/Eberspacher-Airtronic-Heater-glow-252069011300/dp/B01CCZ5XJI
Does this fit or do you have to rube it in?
Nothing wrong with dual fuel but there is an obvious convenience of having a heater that will not run out of fuel. I have the Espar D2 in my 1985 and love it but after a week of camping I need to get the diesel refilled and always have to watch the diesel tank so as not to be caught out.
With prices dropping across the board for new gas heaters, now is the time to dump my investment in BN4 Eberspachers to the bay window boys before it's too late. I have 5 of them sitting in my garage with all the special baywindow installation parts  |
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Gruppe B
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 1331
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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| GypsyDriver wrote: |
| Looks nice, Gruppe B. Looking forward to seeing your installation. My Eberspacher arrived last week. I don't have pictures at the moment, but will update when I get a chance. I went with the diesel model, but am really tempted to order the Webasto gas model to so I can tap into my gas tank. I went with the espar diesel originally because of the reported coking problems with the gasoline models and performance at altitude (Espar vs. Webasto). I'll be interested to hear your report. |
You'll love the Espar D2! I've had one in my 1985 since 2013 and it has never let me down.
Where I live (Great Lakes) is pretty close to sea level so for the most part the Webasto won't be in any high altitude conditions. I'll post up the install as soon as it starts (hopefully over Christmas). Isnt there an altitude adjustment computer for the Webasto that prevents it running rich at high altitude? I'll see if I can find a link.
The Webasto is going in another one of my vans (1991 Westy) and since the price for the Espar D2 Diesel and Wesbasto Gas model is the same, I chose the Wesbasto to save me from adding a secondary fuel tank.
Cheers,
Gruppe B |
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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| Gruppe B wrote: |
Nothing wrong with dual fuel but there is an obvious convenience of having a heater that will not run out of fuel. I have the Espar D2 in my 1985 and love it but after a week of camping I need to get the diesel refilled and always have to watch the diesel tank so as not to be caught out.
With prices dropping across the board for new gas heaters, now is the time to dump my investment in BN4 Eberspachers to the bay window boys before it's too late. I have 5 of them sitting in my garage with all the special baywindow installation parts |
What I put in was another Chinese pin because it was the quickest to get. The D2/D4 pins fit perfectly, though you have to splice the connector. I've got a genuine Eber pin if needed, guy on the FB group from the UK got some Eber pins on wholesale closeout and was selling earlier this year for around £50 ($60ish), less than half what Amazon wants.
Tank I put in for the heater is a 10L, so if I fill it before leaving home I'm good for almost 20 hours at full heat before needing to refuel, and a 5KW on high is enough to heat the interior of the Bus plus a side tent (if I had one), so I'm good for a fairly long time.
Yeah, sell off that old BN4 junk off quick before more of the Bay crowd wises up. If I had the wherewithal to do it, I'd look into maybe getting the ductwork that runs from the heater to the passenger compartment reproduced with the heater end left unfinished, because there are a few Bay owners in the FB group looking at installing 2KW or 5KW units into the BN4 location .. bonus would be if the BN4 recirculating bits could be found & reproduced also. Sadly, I have no skills, no funds and no space to undertake such a project... |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9923
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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It's HERE!!
DHL just delivered my $85 heater, 2kw diesel.
Wow, looks great, factory sealed box, well packed, everything included.
Very compact. Main body about 12" x 4.5" x 4.5"
30 page manual in English.
Mark |
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GypsyDriver
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2012
Posts: 190
Location: Columbus, GA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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| Gruppe B wrote: |
| Isnt there an altitude adjustment computer for the Webasto that prevents it running rich at high altitude? I'll see if I can find a link. |
You can adjust the webasto manually for altitudes above 5000 feet according to this article https://faroutride.com/webasto-espar-high-altitudes/. But it requires the rheostat switch. |
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vwhammer
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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Woo hoo.
I got my 85$ 2kw heater today.
Everything was there and it all seems pretty legit.
It even came with the 10L tank instead of the 5L tank as advertised.
Oh and it also came with the latest remote that allows you to adjust the temp with the remote.
This thing is really small.
I am anxious for my 8kw unit to arrive so I can compare sizes. |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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candyman
Samba Trout Slayer
Joined: December 20, 2003
Posts: 2694
Location: Missoula MT
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
Just got a text from DHL, the international shipping company.
My $85 + $15 diesel 2kw heater from HongKong is due tomorrow, signature required.
Looks like I'll get something anyway. Hope it works.
Mark
| vwhammer wrote: |
Another update in the saga that is The $85 Dollar El Cheapo Supreme Diesel Parking Heater Purchase Debacle .
As some of you know.
I purchased a 2wk heater for $82.50 plus $15.99 shipping.....
I wonder if I will still actually get it and if I do will it actually be functional.
Anyone want to place bets?
Is gambling legal on The Samba?...... |
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Where did u guys buy these? I can only find them for $185 on ebay |
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vwhammer
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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Yeah it was like a two day thing with some scammy sh!+ thrown in for good measure.
The $85 heater deal is no more.
I would bet, however, that if you keep checking you should be able to find some in the $160 range.
If you are diligent you might even be able to wait for a 10 or 15% discount code from ebay and get a pretty good deal on what many have stated to be a functional useful heater.
I have two but I need one more so I am always looking. |
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vwhammer
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9923
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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Yes, mine is small too, smaller than the dimensions given in the Ebay listing. Those must be for one of the higher output models.
Now that I see how small it really is I'm thinking about installing it, after I get around to running some tests.
Mark
| vwhammer wrote: |
Woo hoo.
I got my 85$ 2kw heater today.....
This thing is really small.
I am anxious for my 8kw unit to arrive so I can compare sizes. |
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vwhammer
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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15% off code on ebay right now.
Today only.
You could get that basic $139 one I linked above for less than 120 shipped. |
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vwhammer
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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Well I took advantage of the 15% off thing but I did not buy another heater.
I decided that I will use the 2kw heater that I have and build a weatherproof box that will house the whole thing.(sorta like the ones you can buy on ebay.
I will then have an inlet and an outlet duct that would be fed into whatever I am trying to heat.
I could use it in a tent or the van or just have it near by and point the business end at me while I am all cozy in my camp hammock.
So what did I get with my 15% off discount?
I bought 2 used Nissan leaf battery modules.
other than the 9 or 10 amps used briefly for ignition start up, this thing runs on less than 1 amp.
With that number my battery should be able to run this heater for about 50 hours.
What a coincidence.
The 10 litter tank should also run for about 50 hours on its lowest setting.
So my box will have on-board power and a charger built in so it can simply be plugged in to charge it.
Heck I could probably even use a little solar to charge it.
It surely would be easier just to mount it in my van but some friends and I are planning a snowy winter camp outing with a bigger tent and we thought we might try to use one of these to heat the tent.
As such, a portable set up seems to fit the bill. |
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Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4408
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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| vwhammer wrote: |
...So what did I get with my 15% off discount?
I bought 2 used Nissan leaf battery modules. other than the 9 or 10 amps used briefly for ignition start up, this thing runs on less than 1 amp.
With that number my battery should be able to run this heater for about 50 hours... So my box will have on-board power and a charger built in so it can simply be plugged in to charge it. Heck I could probably even use a little solar to charge it.... |
I like your style 
_________________
1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
| SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
| Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
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Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4408
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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| vwhammer wrote: |
...So what did I get with my 15% off discount?
I bought 2 used Nissan leaf battery modules. other than the 9 or 10 amps used briefly for ignition start up, this thing runs on less than 1 amp.
With that number my battery should be able to run this heater for about 50 hours... So my box will have on-board power and a charger built in so it can simply be plugged in to charge it. Heck I could probably even use a little solar to charge it.... |
I like your style
_________________
1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
| SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
| Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
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GypsyDriver
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2012
Posts: 190
Location: Columbus, GA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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| vwhammer wrote: |
| I bought 2 used Nissan leaf battery modules. |
This is interesting. These batteries seem to be plentiful and cheap on eBay. They’re rated at 7.6V each. I assume you’re running both in parallel at 15.2 volts without any sort of step down transformer? According to the workshop manual for my Espar D2, the top end of the operating voltage range is 16 volts. I assume all of these operate in a similar voltage range. I wonder if these batteries could be adapted to deep cycle use in general. 4 of these with 2 wired in parallel banks with banks wired in series gets you 400 amp hours at ~15.2 volts for far less space, weight, and money with all the advantages of lithium. |
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vwhammer
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone tried these $179 Webasto heater knockoffs? |
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Actually a 2s2p arrangement would only net you 15.2 (technically 16.8 volts fully charged) volts and 128 rated amp hours.
A lot of these "64 amp hour rated" modules that have been tested only actually have about 50 amp hours due to age and other factors.
So realistically you are looking at 16.8 volts and 100 amp hours in the arrangement you suggested.
I am concerned about over volting my heater so I am running a step down converter to get it just right.
I just need to sort out a proper charging set up and I should be good to go.
I will definitely post info in here or possibly a new thread once I get all the parts and start the build.
This sort of thing would be great for people with multiple vehicles that they want to use a heater in.
I should also point out that with the remote you could technically start the heater and warm your ride from the comforts of your house without running the engine.
Since I will be using my van for daily use and I live where it gets cold this is this is especially appealing to me. |
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Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4408
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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