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Maximum speed.
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magoo-uk
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:58 am    Post subject: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

We're heading off on a big trip in a few weeks, but it would be nice to get there in one day! Wink 60 mph with a small family and camping gear is my normal top speed.

I have a stock engine and gear box, rebuilt up to 1776 with twin ICH carbs. What would be my top speed with this set up?
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richparker
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

It’s not about the speed. It’s about slowing down, enjoying the ride and the time with your family. Have a safe trip and keep an eye on your temps.
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magoo-uk
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

My main concern is passing trucks safely on the motorway. I want to know how much beyond 63 mph can I take the bus without blowing something?

The engine had to be rebuilt with Mahler pistons after a faulty one blew last year ruining a holiday!
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Spike0180
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

If you're engine is properly tuned and your AF ratio is spot on and your timing is good, you can floor these engines all day. Just make sure your Oil temp is good, CHT is good, and know the faster your engine spins the more wear you get on your bearings and valve train. I run my engine @ 3800-4200rpm on the motorway. 65-72ish. If you've ever been to Detroit, you'll understand why I choose to accept the wear on the engine instead of slowing down.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

just watch the tachometer, 3300-3500 is where it needs to live. Take a side road if you are concerned about traffic. I have not taken my Bus on expressways for many years due to insane traffic speeds.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

It depends on what you are doing and where you are driving.

Assuming you're referring to your '70 bus, check the manuals on thesamba. Note that your maximum power output is @ 4400 RPM, so you should never bother going above that - you're just creating more heat and risking valve float. Maximum torque is at 3000 rpm. Maximum fan output is not in the manual, but I believe it is around 3500rpm.

Realistically, without oil/CHT gauges, the best way to make sure you're good with the engine is to never give it more than 75% throttle. Pedal to the floor for cruising is a surefire way to cook your engine, and there is no way you're keeping up on the interstate without cooking a Type 1 in a bus.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

LOTS of factors influence what I tell folks should be their maximum speed.

1) Is the engine capable of cooling itself? All stock engines are. Problems arise when parts are modified, tuned poorly, or missing.

2) How is the engine balance? My old engine would have rattled my teeth out above 60. Current engine creuises 70 but sucks gas, so I keep it between 60 and 65 for a good mix of economy and punctuality.

3) Do you have gauges and do you trust them? I tend to drive faster when I turn mine on, because I can see what's going on. Without them, it's just a leisurely day with just me and my bus on the road. The mental game here is strong, too, as machines can take more heat than our human bodies can process.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

magoo-uk wrote:
My main concern is passing trucks safely on the motorway. I want to know how much beyond 63 mph can I take the bus without blowing something?


Funny thing on my recent road trip is that all of the big rigs were passing me Wink
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CarlosZ
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

The “Drive slow and enjoy the ride” thing gets old when sitting in 50 miles of Los Angeles traffic. The carpool lane is sometimes less congested. My butt would pucker-up when traffic would subside and now I’m doing 70 mph in the carpool lane with the next carpool exit a few miles away. Installed a DD CHT and maybe it’s given me a false sense of security, but my ‘72 can stay well under 400° at 70 mph. Puckering has subsided a bit.

I’m aware driving faster will cause quicker wear, but can a properly tuned and built type 4 engine (in a bus) maintain 65-70 mph for about a couple hundred miles w/o too much risk to the engine and tranny? I don’t care if the engine wears as that’s life and they’re rather affordable to rebuild. I just want to maintain a speed that won’t lead to a catastrophic failure. I’ve a 3-rib on a 2.0.

Gracias!
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

New top speed!!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=550406&highlight=top+speed.

Higher top speed
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=172568&highlight=top+speed.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

In my 70' bay bus with a well balanced 1776 engine with stock everything else in place, 65 is the most I'd go on the freeway. I usually cruise around 62 though. The gearing to me dictates the speed more than the MPH. To me, the gearing in a stock 70' bus likes the 60-65 MPH range and keeps the RPMS happy.
In a late bay bus, most report 65-70 is comfortable for them.

I was driving from PHX to San Antonio a couple of years ago. Half way there in the middle on no where, I stopped at rest stop. A 30 something guy was driving his mid-70's bus from Oregon to Florida. The bus was idling while I chatted with him and sounded great. I asked him "are people getting pissed at you for not doing 80MPH in the slow lane. His response was "if they are, I'm not noticing. He left as I went to the bathroom. Several miles up the road, I passed him in my Honda. He was doing 65 in the slow lane, arm hanging out the window and a smile on his face. Wink
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

Early Bay Window Busses with a Magnesium Type 1 case engine probably will hold up to 70 mph all day if the cooling is good. Depends on the outside air temp and full flow oiling etc. will do better. The big problem with Magnesium cases is hammering out on them lucky to get 25K miles before needing an align bore if driven at highway speeds a lot. If it has good Clutch FlyWheel Balance and if it's a Counterweighted Crankshaft it will run at those higher RPMs nicely. I would save speeds over 72 Mph for passing then drop back down to 65 or 67 MPH. That 1776 Should easily do 80mph though. Hope your steering box and tie rods are good! Need Front Disc brakes so you can stop.
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Brian
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:41 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

You can resd the above advise all day long but you know you're just going to go off your gut feeling. Ride it, and just drive. These VWs are funny and they'll tell you when too much is too much.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:27 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

magoo-uk wrote:
My main concern is passing trucks safely on the motorway. I want to know how much beyond 63 mph can I take the bus without blowing something?

The engine had to be rebuilt with Mahler pistons after a faulty one blew last year ruining a holiday!
Sorry to hear that, but we did have concerns about the builders mental health after I stripped mine finding errors in all departments and others found swarf in their engines etc etc. A sad end for a previously highly respected engine builder.

Bursts of overtaking at speed are fine, it's sustained speed that will slowly heat the oil no matter what size the engine. Type-1's I've had in buses were fine at 55-60, but 60-65 was too much for the cooling to keep up with. A type-4 based engine gets another 5-10mph cruising speed - my very, very mild 2.4 will cruise at 70 all day long but 75 is too much in summer.. The only reason I know this is...

Gauges - I have them all. Some call them worry gauges but a glance at them from time to time gives me peace of mind. That's oil temp, oil pressure, cht x2 and AFR. Some say overkill, I say cheaper than rebuilding.

I hope you have a trouble free holiday, if anyone deserves one, you do. Smile
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richparker
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Up a 6% grade hill at 7700’.
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61 BUS Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

In my 71 Kombi, I drive 60-65 on the freeway in the slow lane. If there's a frontage road that parallels the freeway, I always take that.

For me, it's about the journey, not the destination. Cool
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magoo-uk
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

Hi Zed! How's the boat?

Thanks for all the advice. I've no gauges, I just use my ears for gear changes and slow down when things smell hot!

I wouldn't normally cruise much higher than 60, maybe drop it down to 56 to give it a rest. Winds higher than 15 mph or a passing SUV doing 70 can send me towards the hard shoulder. But happy in the knowledge I can 'give it some welly' when required. Smile
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

An Engine that will do that is no longer a Volkswagen Experience. Well, it is but. Stock, I used to go up 6% grades at 50 mph floored and in 3rd gear in the Rockies. Now with the 74mm Stroke and the 88mm bore which makes a Type 1 engine an 1.8 Liter displacement engine, I can do 4th. Maybe 60 Mph in 4th probably 1/2 to 3/4 throttle with the Dell 36's.


richparker wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Up a 6% grade hill at 7700’.

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Last edited by Danwvw on Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zed999
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

magoo-uk wrote:
Hi Zed! How's the boat?

Thanks for all the advice. I've no gauges, I just use my ears for gear changes and slow down when things smell hot!

I wouldn't normally cruise much higher than 60, maybe drop it down to 56 to give it a rest. Winds higher than 15 mph or a passing SUV doing 70 can send me towards the hard shoulder. But happy in the knowledge I can 'give it some welly' when required. Smile


I'm on my second boat, I had to get a bigger one after son no.2 decided to move in but it's great thanks, I should have done it 30 years ago! Just spent a month grinding rust and prepping the roof - some things never change...
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:56 am    Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. Reply with quote

My stock 1969 with an engine I carefully rebuilt (1600 single port) back in 1977 will happily cruise at 70. I lived just north of L.A., and my mother had a sister in San Francisco, so the bus made that journey multiple times. Still runs fine today on that same engine, which only has a total of maybe 40,000 miles on it. My now ex wife got a speeding ticket in my 73 going 80 in Ohio in 1987, which was the last time I ever let her drive my bus. 3 years later, towing a trailer with 2 Bmw motorcycles, loaded with books and tools, I moved back to L.A. from Chicago, and once the bus slowly got to speed, cruised with little effort at 70, across country, except of course for big hills and mountains. Engine (1.7 type 4) had 125,000 miles, and the only parts worn during rebuild at 151,000 was the cam and lifters.
Anymore, I would not try to maintain those speeds. The poor quality fuel, the lack of easily available quality engine parts means the price tag for excessive wear is too high for my wallet. I currently live between the lower midwest (Nowhere, In.) and the Gulf Coast (Pensacola,Fl.), and the average road speed on I-65 is 80 plus. To be a rolling chicane even at 70 on that highway is suicide. I know either of my busses would make the trip at 70, but it is now too slow. So I understand the fear of being run over from behind, which means I tow my busses during that trip.
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