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magoo-uk Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 47 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:58 am Post subject: Maximum speed. |
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We're heading off on a big trip in a few weeks, but it would be nice to get there in one day! 60 mph with a small family and camping gear is my normal top speed.
I have a stock engine and gear box, rebuilt up to 1776 with twin ICH carbs. What would be my top speed with this set up? _________________ magoo classic car mugs
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6936 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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It’s not about the speed. It’s about slowing down, enjoying the ride and the time with your family. Have a safe trip and keep an eye on your temps. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build |
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magoo-uk Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 47 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:53 am Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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My main concern is passing trucks safely on the motorway. I want to know how much beyond 63 mph can I take the bus without blowing something?
The engine had to be rebuilt with Mahler pistons after a faulty one blew last year ruining a holiday! _________________ magoo classic car mugs
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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:14 am Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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If you're engine is properly tuned and your AF ratio is spot on and your timing is good, you can floor these engines all day. Just make sure your Oil temp is good, CHT is good, and know the faster your engine spins the more wear you get on your bearings and valve train. I run my engine @ 3800-4200rpm on the motorway. 65-72ish. If you've ever been to Detroit, you'll understand why I choose to accept the wear on the engine instead of slowing down. _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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Manfred58sc Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009 Posts: 3374
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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just watch the tachometer, 3300-3500 is where it needs to live. Take a side road if you are concerned about traffic. I have not taken my Bus on expressways for many years due to insane traffic speeds. _________________ Fat chick owner/operator |
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guitarman63mm Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2008 Posts: 797 Location: Asheville, NC
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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It depends on what you are doing and where you are driving.
Assuming you're referring to your '70 bus, check the manuals on thesamba. Note that your maximum power output is @ 4400 RPM, so you should never bother going above that - you're just creating more heat and risking valve float. Maximum torque is at 3000 rpm. Maximum fan output is not in the manual, but I believe it is around 3500rpm.
Realistically, without oil/CHT gauges, the best way to make sure you're good with the engine is to never give it more than 75% throttle. Pedal to the floor for cruising is a surefire way to cook your engine, and there is no way you're keeping up on the interstate without cooking a Type 1 in a bus. _________________ Jimmy
- 1974 Safaré Custom Camper. 091 trans + Dual Weber 34 ICTs + Pertronix SVDA + 1.7L 914 T4 engine. |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12688 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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LOTS of factors influence what I tell folks should be their maximum speed.
1) Is the engine capable of cooling itself? All stock engines are. Problems arise when parts are modified, tuned poorly, or missing.
2) How is the engine balance? My old engine would have rattled my teeth out above 60. Current engine creuises 70 but sucks gas, so I keep it between 60 and 65 for a good mix of economy and punctuality.
3) Do you have gauges and do you trust them? I tend to drive faster when I turn mine on, because I can see what's going on. Without them, it's just a leisurely day with just me and my bus on the road. The mental game here is strong, too, as machines can take more heat than our human bodies can process.
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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JimmyJagged Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016 Posts: 88 Location: San Juan Capistrano, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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magoo-uk wrote: |
My main concern is passing trucks safely on the motorway. I want to know how much beyond 63 mph can I take the bus without blowing something?
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Funny thing on my recent road trip is that all of the big rigs were passing me _________________ Current:
1971 Tin Top Weekender Bus
1973 Squareback
1985 Pop Top Weekender Vanagon (my 19yo son's first car. father/son project)
1985 Pop Top Weekender Vanagon w/ 2.5 Subaru
Past:
1976 Rabbit diesel (my first car). RIP. totaled by drunk driver (not me!)
1973 Pop Top Westfalia Weekender Bus. RIP. Blown engine due to 25yo ignorant of VW maintenance (me).
1986 Vanagon Transporter. RIP. totaled by drunk driver (not me!)
1987 Vanagon Syncro. I never should have sold. |
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CarlosZ Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2016 Posts: 319 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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The “Drive slow and enjoy the ride” thing gets old when sitting in 50 miles of Los Angeles traffic. The carpool lane is sometimes less congested. My butt would pucker-up when traffic would subside and now I’m doing 70 mph in the carpool lane with the next carpool exit a few miles away. Installed a DD CHT and maybe it’s given me a false sense of security, but my ‘72 can stay well under 400° at 70 mph. Puckering has subsided a bit.
I’m aware driving faster will cause quicker wear, but can a properly tuned and built type 4 engine (in a bus) maintain 65-70 mph for about a couple hundred miles w/o too much risk to the engine and tranny? I don’t care if the engine wears as that’s life and they’re rather affordable to rebuild. I just want to maintain a speed that won’t lead to a catastrophic failure. I’ve a 3-rib on a 2.0.
Gracias! |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13383 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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In my 70' bay bus with a well balanced 1776 engine with stock everything else in place, 65 is the most I'd go on the freeway. I usually cruise around 62 though. The gearing to me dictates the speed more than the MPH. To me, the gearing in a stock 70' bus likes the 60-65 MPH range and keeps the RPMS happy.
In a late bay bus, most report 65-70 is comfortable for them.
I was driving from PHX to San Antonio a couple of years ago. Half way there in the middle on no where, I stopped at rest stop. A 30 something guy was driving his mid-70's bus from Oregon to Florida. The bus was idling while I chatted with him and sounded great. I asked him "are people getting pissed at you for not doing 80MPH in the slow lane. His response was "if they are, I'm not noticing. He left as I went to the bathroom. Several miles up the road, I passed him in my Honda. He was doing 65 in the slow lane, arm hanging out the window and a smile on his face. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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Early Bay Window Busses with a Magnesium Type 1 case engine probably will hold up to 70 mph all day if the cooling is good. Depends on the outside air temp and full flow oiling etc. will do better. The big problem with Magnesium cases is hammering out on them lucky to get 25K miles before needing an align bore if driven at highway speeds a lot. If it has good Clutch FlyWheel Balance and if it's a Counterweighted Crankshaft it will run at those higher RPMs nicely. I would save speeds over 72 Mph for passing then drop back down to 65 or 67 MPH. That 1776 Should easily do 80mph though. Hope your steering box and tie rods are good! Need Front Disc brakes so you can stop. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:41 am Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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You can resd the above advise all day long but you know you're just going to go off your gut feeling. Ride it, and just drive. These VWs are funny and they'll tell you when too much is too much. _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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Zed999 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018 Posts: 1241 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:27 am Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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magoo-uk wrote: |
My main concern is passing trucks safely on the motorway. I want to know how much beyond 63 mph can I take the bus without blowing something?
The engine had to be rebuilt with Mahler pistons after a faulty one blew last year ruining a holiday! |
Sorry to hear that, but we did have concerns about the builders mental health after I stripped mine finding errors in all departments and others found swarf in their engines etc etc. A sad end for a previously highly respected engine builder.
Bursts of overtaking at speed are fine, it's sustained speed that will slowly heat the oil no matter what size the engine. Type-1's I've had in buses were fine at 55-60, but 60-65 was too much for the cooling to keep up with. A type-4 based engine gets another 5-10mph cruising speed - my very, very mild 2.4 will cruise at 70 all day long but 75 is too much in summer.. The only reason I know this is...
Gauges - I have them all. Some call them worry gauges but a glance at them from time to time gives me peace of mind. That's oil temp, oil pressure, cht x2 and AFR. Some say overkill, I say cheaper than rebuilding.
I hope you have a trouble free holiday, if anyone deserves one, you do. |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6936 Location: Durango, CO
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61 BUS Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2005 Posts: 692 Location: Tucson, Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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In my 71 Kombi, I drive 60-65 on the freeway in the slow lane. If there's a frontage road that parallels the freeway, I always take that.
For me, it's about the journey, not the destination. _________________ 61 Bus, 71 Bus, 76 Beetle, 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth, 47 Plymouth Business Coupe, 58 BMW Isetta 300 |
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magoo-uk Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 47 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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Hi Zed! How's the boat?
Thanks for all the advice. I've no gauges, I just use my ears for gear changes and slow down when things smell hot!
I wouldn't normally cruise much higher than 60, maybe drop it down to 56 to give it a rest. Winds higher than 15 mph or a passing SUV doing 70 can send me towards the hard shoulder. But happy in the knowledge I can 'give it some welly' when required. _________________ magoo classic car mugs
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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An Engine that will do that is no longer a Volkswagen Experience. Well, it is but. Stock, I used to go up 6% grades at 50 mph floored and in 3rd gear in the Rockies. Now with the 74mm Stroke and the 88mm bore which makes a Type 1 engine an 1.8 Liter displacement engine, I can do 4th. Maybe 60 Mph in 4th probably 1/2 to 3/4 throttle with the Dell 36's.
richparker wrote: |
Up a 6% grade hill at 7700’. |
_________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!
Last edited by Danwvw on Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zed999 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2018 Posts: 1241 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:15 am Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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magoo-uk wrote: |
Hi Zed! How's the boat?
Thanks for all the advice. I've no gauges, I just use my ears for gear changes and slow down when things smell hot!
I wouldn't normally cruise much higher than 60, maybe drop it down to 56 to give it a rest. Winds higher than 15 mph or a passing SUV doing 70 can send me towards the hard shoulder. But happy in the knowledge I can 'give it some welly' when required. |
I'm on my second boat, I had to get a bigger one after son no.2 decided to move in but it's great thanks, I should have done it 30 years ago! Just spent a month grinding rust and prepping the roof - some things never change... |
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Tbob Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2007 Posts: 417 Location: Pensacola, Fl.
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Maximum speed. |
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My stock 1969 with an engine I carefully rebuilt (1600 single port) back in 1977 will happily cruise at 70. I lived just north of L.A., and my mother had a sister in San Francisco, so the bus made that journey multiple times. Still runs fine today on that same engine, which only has a total of maybe 40,000 miles on it. My now ex wife got a speeding ticket in my 73 going 80 in Ohio in 1987, which was the last time I ever let her drive my bus. 3 years later, towing a trailer with 2 Bmw motorcycles, loaded with books and tools, I moved back to L.A. from Chicago, and once the bus slowly got to speed, cruised with little effort at 70, across country, except of course for big hills and mountains. Engine (1.7 type 4) had 125,000 miles, and the only parts worn during rebuild at 151,000 was the cam and lifters.
Anymore, I would not try to maintain those speeds. The poor quality fuel, the lack of easily available quality engine parts means the price tag for excessive wear is too high for my wallet. I currently live between the lower midwest (Nowhere, In.) and the Gulf Coast (Pensacola,Fl.), and the average road speed on I-65 is 80 plus. To be a rolling chicane even at 70 on that highway is suicide. I know either of my busses would make the trip at 70, but it is now too slow. So I understand the fear of being run over from behind, which means I tow my busses during that trip. _________________ 1969 Deluxe, owned since 1973
1973 Westfalia, owned since 1983
1980 Westfalia, watercooled conversion
1985 Westfalia, stock!
1986 Westfakia, Audi I-4 conversion
A couple of trucks and a couple of Jeeps |
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