Neil's 52 Zwitter

[nshaddox]

Yea I was thinking 4mm was a better target but then I figured it was better to be too big than too small. I can always close the door with a wood block in the A pillar gap to bend the hinges back. Everything in the back was lining up nice enough and the gap was even enough that I knew this was ‘home.’ Gap at the A pillar is ~3mm so opening that up a bit should give me a nice, close, even gap everywhere.

I feel like that’s all final adjustment stuff I can worry about when there is more metal keeping the door and A pillar from flexing. They are moving a lot still.

I haven’t checked inner dimension yet. Always felt that the diagrams where too vague on start/end locations to be given down to the mm. And why would one side be 1mm over the other? Just seems weird. I’ll check and report out on my next shop day.

[VW_Jimbo]

Cool! I will take a few photos of where I measured mine at and include the measurements.

I read somewhere long ago that they (VW) anticipated the driver’s door to sag earlier than the passenger door. I have thought about it through the years and never believed that. I think it has to do with thrust and torque. I sure as hell don’t know. But I do know it is odd!

Have a good week, and a good turkey day!
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[geneL3c]

Neil, I know it will seem rather crude, but when I was working at a VW dealer in the 60s, being the newbe, I got all the door and window alignments on Beetles and Ghias. For sagging doors, the fix was a floor jack and a block of wood to push the door up vertically. If it was too high, just hang on the door a bit at a time until you got what you wanted. You would be surprised at how much you can bend and twist a VW !

[nshaddox]

Thanks guys, believe me I’ve already been manhandling the door to perfect alignment and will continue to do so.

I flat towed this car back from Iowa to Detroit without it having any heater channels. Doors were strapped shut with shitting straps at the B pillars, but I’m pretty sure the body sagged a bit over those few hundred miles, and I think the doors twisted a bit out at the bottom. I’ve been yanking on it to correct it a bit before I weld in the outer skin at the bottom and they get more rigid.

Hope everyone has a safe and filling Thanksgiving this year.

[DeNi6355]

Congrats Neil....its come along way since you dragged her home...I remember you telling me it was to far gone?!?
Dennis

[nshaddox]

Dennis, good to hear from you, hope whatever life curveballs you mentioned in your thread are behind you now. Sorry to see you had to let the 55 go, but happy it got finished and is on the road now. I’m sure you’ll find yourself a new project if and when the right one comes along.

Yea, I remember telling you I thought it might be too far gone. But I’ve seen some pretty epic barndoor bus builds since then on here and figured if something like a pile of mangled bus parts could get put back on the road then this should be no problem. I’m just trying to do one little thing a day, or most days at least. It would be a lot harder without other enthusiasts making so many quality reproduction parts. Or without other people sharing their projects. Have to be thankful to the vw community.

Plus I tend to prefer these impossible projects that take way too much time. There’s no thrill in easy projects. Challenges are fun.

[VW_Jimbo]

[Two Glove Boxes]

Nice work. Cant wait to get back on my split!
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1951 Split Standard Hoffman Build

1960 Dove Blue Double Cab Patina Build

Two Glove Boxes

DLK

[nshaddox]

Thanks guys.

Reverse order update this time. Got drivers rear cross member final trimmed and tacked in about halfway before my Ar tank ran out last night.

Only thing I’m not sure I’m liking is this gap here. I suspect this has more to do with holes in klassic fab floors kicking heater channels out a bit than anything else, but it could easily also be that I just didn’t install the floors 100% in the right orientation. I just put them in where they bolted to the channels nicely, which was only one way. I don’t even remember if I measured side to side to make sure they kicked out from tunnel evenly. Something to check today although it’s probably too late to adjust now.

At any rate, everything else lined up pretty well so I got it tacked in.

I also tried playing with door gap again. Wide gap was bugging me thanks to Jimbo’s reminder that it should be closer to 4mm. I measured a bunch of distances per Bentley manual suggestions. I say suggestions because the measurements aren’t very clear on start/end locations and also come from the 58-64 manual. LK should be 923/924 across the channel. MN should be xxx up the B pillar. I made steel rods cut to length for these first two back when I cut out the remnants of the old channels. YY should be 1394mm across the door gap diagonally. Add to this that all the pillars should be square to the channel.

I checked the steel rods and squareness of the A and B pillars and it became obvious that the A needed to come closer to B 1-2mm as Jimbo’s eyechrometer suggested. Here it is moved a 3rd time with the 923mm gauge rod setting on top of the carpet strip, 1mm gap to actual pillar gives 924 right in the money.

Resulting of course in a gap that looks like shit. Pillars are more square now (not perfect though) so I think this is coming partly from door and partly from body sag.

MN gauge rod is a bit tight in this side. I could force it in flush with the B, but looking at it I think the B pillar needs to move up 1-2mm. The chunk of old metal that I saved from this joint seems to confirm my suspicion. Passenger side fits nicer. Can probably get it to move enough with a bottle jack.

I asked Jimbo to double check quarter panel bend to heater channel lip for me on his build. Side to side got anywhere from 38-42mm. Mine is pretty close to 40 at B pillar on drivers side and 39 as far back as the edge still exists on the old quarter, about 60% of the way to the cross member. I think this is telling me the rear of the car has sagged a bit. I can get it to move some with the floor jack under it but I think I’m going to have to put it under tension to pull the diagonal measurement to 1394 and square up the pillars. I think 42mm should be what I aim for on both sides but would appreciate more comparisons from people with ‘nice’ cars. I’d check passenger side on this car but quarter is too rotten and the fold is MIA.

I think I’ll have to finish lower hinge install before I can 100% sort the gap too. I’ve tugged on it enough to open up the gap the hinge slides into to the point that there’s too much slop to dial in the door alignment. Holes for hinge rivets aren’t lining up but I know the hinges match the factory hole alignment. I think door might have too much dish. 200mm up from bottom edge at A pillar side I get 16mm dish. 13mm at the B pillar side. Jimbo told me ~13.5-15mm same A pillar side depending on driver/passenger side. Would be nice to get a few more measurements for comparison. Should be easy enough to correct with a pie cut and will get rivet holes closer too. I still think rivet holes will have to move though. One or two of them.

[nshaddox]

Also got wiper motor rebuild knocked off the list.
Stole this 10/58 screw terminal SKF unit from my Tennant’s lawn ornament project. Told him I’d donate a 12v 67 unit to him if he ever gets back on it.

Cleaned it up inside and out and swapped in a Wolfsburg west 12v armature.

Repacked drive box with new grease and reinfected drive gear 180deg out for oval window application. I know ovals park on the wrong side. Do Zwitters?

Got it all back together and installed on the powder coated frame.

And got new pivots and arms greased and installed. Somehow lost a wave washer in the process and think one of the arms didn’t have the outer nut. Maybe WW will send me some spares if I ask nicely next time I make an order.

[Chickensoup]

hello, i havent been following along very closely to be honest, but i am correct to say the the zwitter changed hands right? sorry for the dumb/lazy question. thanks.
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[nshaddox]

not really, still in my hands. I've had it since 2014. changed hands at least 2 times before that from the guy that found it in PA.

[Chickensoup]

oh ok. i think i had usernames mixed up is why i thought that. yeah ok, i get it now. thank you.
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[nshaddox]

Boss man told me I had to hit the road and visit one of our problem suppliers Th-Saturday out in Wisconsin, so I lost my weekend play date with the garage. But I got thinking that my friend’s grandad lived on the way out there and had a mill and lathe in his garage, so I brought some stuff with me to drop off that I’ve been trying to find a machinist to help with for a long time. Feels good now that it’s done and best part is he didn’t even charge me since his grandson and I are known to help each other out on projects. How nice is that?!

Reproduction brake pedal shafts I had made a year ago or so apparently needed the collar side counterbored. I guess I should have pressed out the old bushing rather than assuming these were a straight ID back when I had them made.
All fixed up now, he even made me a drift to install the brass bushing without me even asking about it.

First try without the counterbore resulted in bushing destruction, see the crushed one in the middle?

Now it installed perfectly.

And rear brake conundrum has been bugging me for like 4 years. Since barndoor rear backing plates aren’t exactly readily available, I decided to try to find a different backing plate that would work. Closest I found was 68+ bug plates, but even those didn’t sit totally flush at the bearing surface because the outer RGB housing has a cast protrusion that sticks out just proud of the bearing surface. Could have ground this down but decided it was better to modify late bug parts than early bus parts. Just needed a small clearance cut to sit flush on the RGB. Hard to get a picture of.

All that’s left is welding the extra brake adjusting holes closed. I’ll be using earlier drums with the adjuster hole in them-these would be impossible to get to anyways with RGBs in the way. I’ll probably weld around the perimeter of the clearance hole too to keep water and dirt from sneaking between the backing plate layers. Cut clean through the first layer.

[nshaddox]

Backing plates done. Sort of. Just remembered since they will be flipped I need to weld up the oil seep hole and drill a new one 180deg off.

Here’s a barndoor bus plate for comparison, note the recessed area. Same idea, but harder to find.

[nshaddox]

Ok now the backing plates are totally done with the oil weep holes relocated for mounting them upside down. Kinda trickier to do that I thought. The plates are made of two pieces and there’s a slight gap between them in the area you have to drill out. I ended up using a small punch to try to minimize the gap and then welding them together at the ‘bottom’ of the hole. Then drill through again to open the hole diameter back up. And don’t forget to weld up the old hole to keep dirt out. All in an effort to let the oil get to the back side and not all over the drum surface or shoes. Detail work.

I should probably check and make sure the inside doesn’t need more material built up for the bearing retainer weep hole to seal up nicely since it looks like it comes through a bit close to a radius. These sure do take some time to get right for this application.

[VW_Jimbo]

It is all in the details! That’s the politically correct way to say it.

That detail work consumes, in my humble opinion, ALL the time plus an equal amount, plus another 24 hours!
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[nshaddox]

Backing plates done? Built up the area around the new weep holes and sanded down. Minor area outside the weld seems to have shrunk down, maybe a minor leak path? I don’t think these need more attention, though. Between powdercoat and sealant/gasket under the bearing cap I think I should be good to go on these finally.

Also got pedals reassembled with new brake and clutch pedal shafts. Just need to reinstall grease zerk and brake pedal pinch bolt. And trim down clutch pedal pin-WW west pin too long by about 5mm.

[VW_Jimbo]

Cricket... cricket... cricket....
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[nshaddox]

Sorry Jimbo. Been busy with house stuff. It’s the cold season and being out in the unheated garage isn’t appealing. I’ll post progress when I make some.