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Neil's 52 Zwitter
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VW_Jimbo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Neil, good to see you are still plugging away at the split! Love reading the updates!

IMI makes a hi torque starter motor for Fiats. Its what I had to get for the 70VW Bug after sticking the 2127 in! The stock starter could not spin that motor fast enough to start.

I looked on there web site and they have a Fiat unit. You may need to call them to sort out the details. They are closer to you than Europe. They are here in SoCal!

Anyways, here is the link:

http://www.hitorque.com/Gear_Reduction_Starter_Fiat_Lancia_IMI_159_001_p/imi-159-001.htm

Again, great to see an update. Keep them coming!!!!
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nshaddox
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Thanks for the starter tip Jimbo. Unfortunately, that has not solved my fiat headache. Even after figuring out some grounding issues and installing the high torque starter I'm not getting the engine to cough to life at all. I think I may have a more fundamental timing or fuel delivery issue at this point. Frustrating because the car is in my other garage and I've been working crazy hours for the new role at work and focusing more on honey-do stuff at home, so I only get like 1-2 hours every 1-2 weeks to try to figure it out. More frustrating still because I moved most of my tool collection over to the new place finally (4 years after moving...) and its sort of a two person effort to diagnose because i can't exactly see what's happening back behind me when i crank the ignition.

anyways, decided it might be better to spend a few minutes on the bug after work a few days ago and promptly broke my hammerdrill trying to bust through spot welds. It just kind of died. no smoke, no noise, just stopped working. It wasn't even 3 years old so it may be covered under limited warranty, but I was told the wait on that could be 3-4 months, so just bought another. Spent way more time dealing with that than it took to actually get this piece out.
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I figure I can save this. I think I'll probably remove the seal channel and replace with a virtanen piece, but the lower corners and center flange repairs look super easy and the rest of it seems solid enough. Kind of approaching this car like Florian's latest barndoor deluxe, trying to save a lot of the OG stuff. Can anyone tell me if the wiring hole is original or if it has been enlarged/modified? only reason I ask is it isn't exactly round, more oval shaped, which I thought was unusual.

the nice thing about having this piece out is I think it is going to make the parcel tray repair much easier. luckily I have what I believe to be the original cut out section for the package tray, and it appears to have been cut out with a tool that left a pretty small kerf. Does anyone know how long the reinforcement rails under the package tray were on these early cars? I thought they were a bit more visible in this photo but I'll have to take a close up I guess. mine don't seem to be cut straight through where the hole in the tray is, but they do appear to be trimmed back some, which seems like weird hackage to me, not really sure who did it or why-maybe to provide an attachment point for some sort of access door? who knows?
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Hey Neil! Good to see you back at her!

I just installed and beat into submission my rear apron. In a few of the pictures you can see that cross piece under the luggage shelf area, inside the engine compartment. From what I see it is close. If you need measurements, let me know!
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TDCTDI wrote:
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

To Neil & Jim, In starting to disassemble the Barndoor axle tube / RGB housings I have, I have managed to separate axle tubes from the housings using a cut down axle and a stepped press plug in my hydraulic press, but there is an inner bearing that needs to come out and my old US 241a bearing puller has a broken leg. Do you know of an alternate puller that would work, can't find another 241a anywhere in the universe ? I know you clever guys manage to pull bearings somehow. Neil, still amazed at your metal work ! Gene
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

I don't remember having any issue getting those out. it seems like 9x out of 10 they want to stick to the stub axle and the OD in the housing isn't much of a press fit if any just based on normal wear and tear. I don't remember if I used a small puller of some sort or if i just flipped the axle housing upside down and kinda banged it against a block of wood until the bearings came out w/gravity, or if they came out with the stub axles when I did mine. you could probably use a 'ladies foot' type prying tool to get them out if those other techniques don't work.
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Thanks for getting back to me. The upper inside bearing is pretty well rusted in the housing, but I might try putting it in the oven for awhile and do the " bang it out on a block " system.
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

no prob. I didn't have rust to contend with inside mine, I could see that making it more difficult. maybe submerge them in an old engine oil drain pan for a few days before applying heat? I'm sure you'll succeed in getting them out.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

A bit more progress over the last few days. Work finally slowing down a bit.

Carefully removed seal channel. Too crusty to save, but will be useful to keep for making the appropriate notches in a yet to be purchased virtanen repair piece.
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That out of the way, tackled the upper flange mid section that was missing from a combo of rust and PO hacking.
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Panel much more rigid with this done. My little welding table is a bit too small for this panel which is irritating.

Still managed to get the next couple of flanges cleaned up despite the awkwardness on the table. A few pin holes patched hear and there as I went as well. Still have to do the corners where the side trays go but saving that for another day.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Progress!

Love reading about it!

Fiat done?
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TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

No, fiat still not running. Between me and my friends we probably have 30 man hours into trying to figure out why so far. Best it’s done was kinda run while holding ignition key and jamming the choke lever back and forth rapidly, or when squirting some gas down the carb. I know it was for sure running on all 4 this way because all the exhaust headers were warm to the touch, so pretty sure I can eliminate a cam-distributor issue.

I think emulsion tube might not be totally clear because I had carb cleaned but couldn’t figure out how to pull it before doing so. Either that or some sort of gross vacuum leak somewhere. I know throttle shaft is a bit loose and I noticed top of carb had somewhat of a concave bow to it. I think I have a spare carb so I’m gonna try that next time. 99.9% sure it’s not timing or spark or compression at this point. Pretty irritating.

I’ve been doing a bit of work on that and on my ‘new’ daily. 1989 crown Vic wagon. Base model without the dumb wood grain. Total beast. Rolled over 90k on the drive up from TX a few weeks back. Power steering pump pulley failed. Overheated a few times. Tailgate power window motor failed on the drive up too. All that and more pretty much sorted out now. Also standard maintenance on that and the 77 F100-my prior daily. Started tackling oil cooler leak on the bubble car too.

Wife is 38wks now. Trying to get lots done on the cars before baby, but the fleet is pretty large now, and so is the nest prep list. Spent all morning cooking up some meals to throw in the freezer for later. Might head out to the garage now though.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Well, new daughter born on the 2nd. That’s been interesting. Honestly loving it, and it’s not the project time show stopper I was anticipating, at least not completely.

Need some help from the crowd, made up some new wiring harness ‘tear up your skin’ clips, but not exactly sure how many or approximate spacing for across the top of this piece? I doubt these were installed with much positional accuracy so would be nice to have some rough distances from some different folks to see how they compare?
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Got both corners repaired on this piece too, so once I get confirmation on harness tab locations I can spot weld those in on and get this firewall piece into the done pile.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Neil. Dude! Congratulations on the baby girl! They are the best things a man can have!Boys are cool, but they eventually find a girl and spend their time over with HER FAMILY! I have 2 girls, which I refer to, with love, as Thing 1 and Thing 2.

Love her like you have never love a person before. Pay attention to her. This is important. Not only are you showing her you care, but she is constructing a template, about love, based off of your input. She will measure her future serious relationships based mostly off of this one metric. If you show her how to love by listening, paying attention, spending time with her, showing her she is number one in your world. She will expect and more import demand, that she be loved like that in her future relationships!

But above everything else, just be there, in person! There is no substitute for you!

Glad to see you working on the Bug, again! Here is the best shot I have of the OG lower firewall panel. There are 4 tabs as you can see. If you need actual hard numbers, post back up and I will get them as soon as I am back in the garage.

Have fun!

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There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:29 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips Jimbo. The little one demands and receives plenty of attention!

No big rush obviously, but if you’ve got 5 min to confirm spacing dimensions on the tabs I’d appreciate it. Looks like the outer two that I still have are centered in the firewall ribs on your piece and my piece, so maybe the spacing was more regular than I’d imagined?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Get it for you tomorrow.
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There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

I Will try to get the dimensions after working today. Was suppose to be on vacation, but great friend called with what sounds like a slab leak on the hot side.
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There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Ok I appreciate it man, like I said, not in a big rush.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Spent some time between baby bottle feeding sessions in the early hours of the morning getting started on the decklid.

I don’t think this decklid is original to the car, but it’s the one I got with the car and the only W lid I have, so I’m gonna attempt to save it. It’s probably gonna take a hundred hours it’s so bad. Someone cut out the inner reinforcement panel to try hammering out some accident damage, but it created a lot more work than I suspect would have been needed if they’d done a better job. At least the remnants of the inner piece came with it. Anyone know if there’s any Zwitter specific decklid stuff to look for?

First step was using the blue wrench to free up the hinges and remove what was left of the old carriers.
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Couple more photos to document the starting point:

Cut out inner panel
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Plethora of dents, some rust, and a few bonus holes
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Spent most of the time this morning hand sanding, but got maybe 60min of hammer and dolly work in on the right side once it was late enough to not disturb the neighbors (too much.)
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Long road ahead.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Neil, You sure are a glutton for punishment ! The deck lid for my '50 Standard isn't that bad ( including bullet holes ! ) but will require a donor lid to piece together. Good luck, but I know you'll get it done. Gene
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

With the rusted-off pieces along the bottom edge of the engine lid and the severe rust pitting, I wonder if the curvature would be the same or close to that of a Beetle fender? If you have a scrap fender, you could take a long piece of wire such as a coathanger or welding rod, bend it to conform to the lid curve, then take it over to the fender for comparison. If the contour is close, you could cut out the fender section and patch it into the engine lid. Hammer/dolly the fender lip so that it's flat like that on the lid.
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When I bought a banged up oval-era W decklid for my Dec. '52 Zwitter nearly 30 years ago at a large VW meet, soon after I installed it the triangular decklid spring bracket separated from the holding bracket/inner frame at the top. On yours, just run a weld bead along the top of the triangular bracket and the decklid for future prevention.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

I’m loving this build thread Neil and congrats on the birth of your daughter. No one seems to have mentioned this but the light switch is a late one. The one you want would have a cylindrical body, screw terminals and a tab off the bottom with a threaded hole for a machine screw to attach it to the underside of the dash.
Keep up the great work. Cheers. Dave
nshaddox wrote:
Awesome, that bit of info will help me out in the future I’m sure. While we are on the topic of wiring, might as well get into some forensics and ask the experts out there what I need to track down eventually for a standard Zwitter. Car did come with some interesting bits to help prove that it’s a standard, but leaves some questions about the 5mo only parts for me.

Question number one right now is do standards have any of those door switches for the interior light or no? Correct me if I’m wrong but I think if they did there would be some holes in the rectangular recess on the A pillar where there clearly haven’t ever been?
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So then follow up question is would this thing still have the 3 position switch under the dash for the speedo/interior lights or would it not need that many positions? Maybe this is a dumb question; I haven’t reviewed a wiring diagram yet. The metal parts of my 3 way switch are in the parts stash, but no Bakelite or harness remains to help with the guess. Also, would the 3 way switch if it is indeed a 3 way switch for this car have a brown knob to match the other dark knobs? See headlight switch, turn signal, and shifter which I believe are all OG?
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Also as luck would have it, the 3 terminal wire block happens to be the only one that I actually had with the stash of original parts. One that I found with the dimmer is nicer though so that’s fine. What other blocks do I need to wire this car up? And is the 6 terminal fuse block unique to Zwitter a or what? Mine is clearly F’ed as they say. Don’t early split buses have 6 fuses? Same fuse block?

Also, I think my turn signal arm is slightly bent. Can anyone confirm that they are supposed to be straight or angled some way?

Pedal pads I think should be big logo, but one of these two nice originals came with the parts stash for this car and the other came from a 60 I cut up a few years back. Thinking I’ll probably just run them. Hmm I wonder if I ever put pads on the bubble car pedals? Might be a better home for them. I’d just kinda like for good original stuff to get put to use...

I think I’m just gonna clean all the original interior stuff up rather than make it all shiny and new and perfect. Paint isn’t all that bad and it’s only original once, right?
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