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Neil's 52 Zwitter
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nshaddox
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

All trim holes now filled. Will need a bit more finishing work here and there but I’ll have to invest in a stud puller first.
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Got all hardware off both doors and started noticing some differences between the two sides. I think the passenger side is original but the drivers side must have been replaced early in the cars life. OG paint on drivers side appears to be a beige color but there are traces of dark blue over that to match it to the cars original paint color. Rubber bumpers have a different hold down mechanism. Any ribbed door experts out there that know when this changed? Do the ones on the right of the pic look like the tabs are bent out too far or is the angle right?
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I don’t know what these holes are for really but when did they change from slots to round? Passenger on left, driver on right.
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Were there differences to stamping a for the inside latch hold down area of doors? Asking because passenger side had some weird home brew latch hardware cobbled together from some junk and I think latch mounting area inside the door got damaged as a result of trying to fit it to the door. Needs repaired but not sure if copying drivers side is ok given other minor differences.
Driver:
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Passenger:
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Hardware, not sure which window track is more correct, suspect one with integral tab to hold the upper side to the door (left in bottom picture). All kinds of brazing action on passenger latch. Who can school me on what to look for for a replacement passenger side latch assembly? Are these the same from side to side?
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Melted old lead out of drivers door to finish up for the day. Looks like 2 or 3 different locations selected over the years for an aftermarket mirror that must have been repeatedly knocked around to cause so much damage to the door. Maybe why the original drivers door was replaced too? Same mirror damaged the original beyond repair too? Ha.
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Both doors had pre-54 style vent window latches with flaking remnants of chrome. I think US spec standards had chrome window cranks with black knobs and door handles on the inside. Did they also have chrome vent window frames? Chrome vent latches? Chrome vent window handle or black with chrome button mounted to chrome frame? Chrome exterior handles or painted? Any other US spec standards out there with OG door hardware?
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nshaddox
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

More progress this morning. Got upper hinge pin out on the passenger door. Took some thinking to get it set up where I could pound on it. Basically suspended it with rope and got it set just right so that my chunk of railroad rail perfectly supported the hinge without the top of the door contacting anything. This pin was so crusty that you couldn’t even see where the parting line was between it and the hinge on the top side. Kinda surprised it came out even with the help of the blue wrench.


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Success:
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Had to get this apart not because it was loose but because the side that bolts to the body is bent to shit and needs straightening out before I can use the door to get the gaps right on that side.
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Pretty pleased with myself that it came apart without more trouble, I’ve been putting this off for a year or two now I think.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

That is a giant step forward! Congratulations on getting the pin out!
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

nshaddox wrote:

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.


Good grief that door is a wreck. I thought one of mine was bad but this is a whole new level. Are you going to replace the outer skin? I've never been able to get a neat seam on a big flat skin like that.
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nshaddox
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Ha. The whole car is a wreck, so if i swapped the whole outer skin it just wouldn’t look right. I have a plan for the seam weld. I dunno how well it’s going to work out but there is a plan.

As pitted as the skins are on this thing, there is still strength to it. I guess these early cars were built from some good gauge steel to begin with for it to seem so solid and so crusty at the same time.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:33 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

nshaddox wrote:
Ha. The whole car is a wreck, so if i swapped the whole outer skin it just wouldn’t look right. I have a plan for the seam weld. I dunno how well it’s going to work out but there is a plan.

As pitted as the skins are on this thing, there is still strength to it. I guess these early cars were built from some good gauge steel to begin with for it to seem so solid and so crusty at the same time.


From what I understand all the early cars were built from recycled Panzers.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Ha yea is that what great grandpa Heinrich said Pete?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Yes - he was a foreman in the panzer recycling center from 46-52.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Saved more recycled panzer parts. Hinge straightened out ‘good enough for who it’s for’ as my buddy used to say. Old pin pushed the rest of the way out, virtanen standard sized pin slipped in to see if I can get away with it. Close but I think it’s best to go first oversize.

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Was looking at drivers side upper hinge. I think I’m going to have to repeat pin removal on that hinge. Almost looks like someone peened over a nail on that side after the mirror pin removal. Probably same guy that hacked up the door a bunch for the peep mirror.

Started thinking more about the skinning job that’s in the future. Made some templates off the bottom of the virtanen lower skins just to see how similar the profile of the door is 150mm up at the location of the future seam. Looks damn close.
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Will be making a tool…
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

I wanna see it! Your tool that is. Oh wait, that does not sound good….

But, I am interested. Because I am about 2 months in back of you. The doors are up, right after the rear section of the body is completely welded in place.
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TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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nshaddox
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Haha. Ordered some metal for the tool project but probably won’t get into that for a few weeks.

Meanwhile removed drivers door upper hinge pin. Glad I did. Came out in 2 pieces, about 10mm just completely missing in the middle which is odd. Lower part of hinge is very worn. Gonna have to think about the best way to repair it.
Maybe sleeve. Maybe weld.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

That’s fairly thin on that one side. I am betting a sleeve, or try welding in some steel. Maybe get a copper, or brass rod that fits tight, into the barrel. Cut the top knuckle on the hinge in line with the pin. Give it a big V cut. Then slide the brass pin into the barrel and weld in a big puddle. Build that puddle till you get past the exterior of the knuckle. Let er cool down and go about making the outside look pretty. Then bore out the inside for the new pin!

I did this for my upper hinge. It worked great! BUT, DO NOT PRESS THE BARREL TOGETHER AFTER CUTTING. That is what I did and the barrel looks slightly elliptical. Nothing you could see, if you were a regular Joe. But if anyone with knowledge on cars came by. They would definitely point it out.

Here it is in the vice.
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And after I squeezed it together.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Anything new going on?
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There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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nshaddox
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:30 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Quote:
Anything new going on?


Mostly baby milestones, thanks for checking in Jimbo.

Its been probably avg 20 degrees F out in the garage. I haven't been out there too much, but have had some new things happening in the basement. got back into pop out window R&R, tried stripping the original clear anodizing with oven cleaner per suggestions on a different thread here, but that didn't seem to work. Ended up taking them to my powder coating place (they also do black oxide, zinc, anodizing, etc.) Had the old coating stripped, then took them home to hand polish as best I could. They aren't perfect but neither is the car, could definitely tell a before/after improvement polishing the frames with/without the anodizing. defects could actually be lightly sanded to blend and then buffed out with the polish rag. Took them back for new anodize coating but waiting to get them back to see whether it was worthwhile or not.

splurged and bought a bunch of wolf parts for the build so that I have plenty to do when it gets a little warmer out there.

Did some CAD work for a few new bits and bobs I need, got the order placed just waiting patiently for the parts.

Also building up a new wheelset for my cross country bicycle. 10 yrs and ~10,000mi on it, old rims were pretty chewed up from potholes and rim brakes. Its pretty tricky finding bike parts these days, go figure.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

nshaddox wrote:
Quote:
Anything new going on?


Mostly baby milestones, thanks for checking in Jimbo.

Its been probably avg 20 degrees F out in the garage. I haven't been out there too much, but have had some new things happening in the basement. got back into pop out window R&R, tried stripping the original clear anodizing with oven cleaner per suggestions on a different thread here, but that didn't seem to work. Ended up taking them to my powder coating place (they also do black oxide, zinc, anodizing, etc.) Had the old coating stripped, then took them home to hand polish as best I could. They aren't perfect but neither is the car, could definitely tell a before/after improvement polishing the frames with/without the anodizing. defects could actually be lightly sanded to blend and then buffed out with the polish rag. Took them back for new anodize coating but waiting to get them back to see whether it was worthwhile or not.

splurged and bought a bunch of wolf parts for the build so that I have plenty to do when it gets a little warmer out there.

Did some CAD work for a few new bits and bobs I need, got the order placed just waiting patiently for the parts.

Also building up a new wheelset for my cross country bicycle. 10 yrs and ~10,000mi on it, old rims were pretty chewed up from potholes and rim brakes. Its pretty tricky finding bike parts these days, go figure.


Good to hear! Sounds like life is full and you are also waiting for parts! Man, this is the one underlining item that has impacted everything I do. Everything! We went to hang drywall in a house that we are remodeling right now. Home Depot was out of drywall with no future date of a delivery! It has made working really hard. A few weeks ago, I could not get single gang electrical boxes! Times are odd to say the least!

Keep on having fun! Sorry to interrupt.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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nshaddox
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Not much to report but dumping some photos into the thread to keep it alive. Maybe that will get me motivated to do some real work. Warming up pretty well so no real excuses not to besides lack of time.

So, previously mentioned batch of wolf panels. Should save a bunch of time.
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Been doing some research reaching out to other standard Zwitter owners to try to figure out whether to strip chrome and paint or rechrome. Of the 3 folks I talked to, one had a euro standard which should have a vent window like this one I saw in the classifieds recently. Posted the pics to the gallery for reference. Swoosh and frame are body color, latch is black with chrome button.
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Other two had Hoffman standard zwitters which is a totally different animal. One happened to be same OG color as my car, guy who restored it shared some pics and said from what he could recall vent window frames, swooshes, and divider bar were all body color. Black latches with chrome button as above. Chrome latch plate on door. Other car was a beige similar to the vent above, however owner said he believed it to be all OG with black vent frames, swoosh, divider bar, also black latch with chrome button, chrome latch plate. I looked through old photos from previous owner of my car and saw it had chrome frames as found, however none of the frames that came with the car were year correct and couldn’t tell from the photos whether the ones that came in the parts box were the same. Basically I’m leaning towards either body color or black when the time comes, so stripped the year correct vent window frames I’ve purchased for the project in prep for chrome removal. Mother Nature has done half the work already.

Also some photo updates on the pop out window rebuild. Set is original pulled from a Wisconsin junkyard maybe 15yrs ago now. Maybe from a 58ish car. Hard to remember. Anyways, not year correct for a 52, but I kinda like the look of the ribbed aluminum extrusion more than the smooth side pop outs. And the price was way better; I think I paid 25$ for the pair vs a few grand for repop split window pop outs. But I thought this was one area where I could do a subtle custom touch. Last winter I tried polishing the frames and wasn’t really too successful with it. I think salt kinda worked it’s way under the clear anodizing back in the day and there were some pits, gouges, scratches and splotches that didn’t want to come out. So step one was remove the latch pivot so they could be stripped of the clear anodize. Pretty sure these rivets are stainless steel of some sort from how hard they were to drill and the fact that they weren’t magnetic shavings. My rivet research yielded some close results, but nothing exact for purchase; however, it made it clear that 18-8 stainless is a pretty conventional choice of material for rivets. So I did the CAD work and had a small batch made up. Still waiting on them.
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OG rivets were slightly hollow on the backside.
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Latch removed, kinda pan head/oval head hybrid rivet.

After old anodize was stripped (free from my shop, thanks cool dudes) much more effective polishing took place.
Polished on left, stripped on right.
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And the custom touch, had the frames reanodized in black. Figure a standard car shoulda had black framed popouts if that had been a thing, which to my knowledge it was not. Anyway, stoked on how they came out, looks great from a few feet but you can still see enough defects up close to know they are the real deal frames with a story to tell. Should fit the look of the car well.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Awesome keep it going!! Good work and I know the process is sometimes long but always is a pleasure concurring the metal rust wars! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

nshaddox wrote:
...
And the custom touch, had the frames reanodized in black. Figure a standard car shoulda had black framed popouts if that had been a thing, which to my knowledge it was not. Anyway, stoked on how they came out, looks great from a few feet but you can still see enough defects up close to know they are the real deal frames with a story to tell. Should fit the look of the car well.
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love it.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

they look excellent in black, and will fit a standard perfectly.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Neil's 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

SWEET!!!!!

Those are going to look AWESOME!!!
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There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

TDCTDI wrote:
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look.


67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
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