Neil's 52 Zwitter

[nshaddox]

I actually got a few hours in the garage yesterday for the first time in months.

Tackled the drivers side upper hinge repair job. I think someone tried drilling out the old pin from below and severely ovaled out the bottom of the body side hinge. I didn’t want to cut and pinch because I was worried about structure of the hinge. Maybe a dumb decision but I put a 8mm copper rod inside, heated the hinge red hot with a torch, and kinda smashed down the ovaled out hinge.

Next step was welding on the OD to build up the shape. Figured this would further shrink down the bore as a bonus. It did to enough of an extent that it was sort of a pain to get the copper rod out.

Looked pretty good after some filing on the OD. ID didn’t come down as far as I’d wanted in the middle, so really just locates the pin up high. Reamed to 8.1mm and felt pretty good but wasn’t happy with how much material surrounded the pin down low so decided to go to 8.2mm. Still not 100% coverage around the pin down low but I think enough to keep it located for a while. Pin is stationary in this half of the hinge anyway and the knurling and joint integrity is on the upper side too. I’m gonna have to work on being satisfied with it. Seems to work pretty well actually.

So that’s done.

Raided my basement junkyard looking for more door bits. Wanted to find some swooshes for the vent windows to get stripped of chrome. Figured I’d see what glass I had available too. The large Sekurit glass came in the parts box that came with the car but in a post 55 frame. Small logo Sekurit from a 60 I parted out years ago that the bubble car was built off of. Duro-glas Liz. Sekurit pair from a 60 I parted out up here in MI. I think I’m gonna run the matching set. Same logo on the images I saved from that standard window frame posted a while back. Research in the oval forum seemed pretty inconclusive on whether it matters what logos you have.

I noticed there are different styles of swooshes. One is more rounded than the other. I only have a pair of the flatter profile ones so I’m gonna run those I guess.

If anyone has any ribbed door window dividers I’m looking for some. I have one for drivers side door but it’s in decent shape so I hate to strip the chrome off of it. Might have to fabricate brackets and make my own out of some later ones. We'll see.

[bally]

Great update - fab filing skills on that hinge; it looks spot on!

Dave

[nshaddox]

A little more time in the garage this morning.

Starting on more cosmetic repairs on the ribbed doors. Going to take some work to make my 60ish donor metal more 52 representative.

Some other stuff in the works that’s taken time but hasn’t been post worthy. Been learning how to take advantage of the 3D printed for shop stuff.

Brake line straightener, not my design found online somewhere:

Heater channel load spreader to help me stretch the b pillar a couple mm hopefully with no channel damage.

Simple die set for ribbed door inner handle pressings. Still refining this one but pretty pleased so far.

[sunroof]

Well done on the hinges:

I fought with mine for weeks.

Don
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Better and better mistakes!

[nshaddox]

Some more work put in. Set about patching the dented/brazed/torn area on the door where the vent wing gets used to close the door. Modified the 60 donor door to be more 52 represented, but left the inner reinforcement since it seems to be necessary to prevent stress cracks.

Started install but still working on it. Profile on the skin is a bit different but I think I can massage it out as I go.

I think I’m going to add a reinforcement under the skin side too. Don’t want to have to repeat this again later.

Started on reassembly of the pop outs. I’ve heard horror stories. Now I have one too. Thought I was being all clever, 3D printed a little bridge and modified a strap to let me squeeze the frame around the new rubber and the window and still install the plate that holds it all together. It actually worked awesome on the second frame. Learned from my mistakes on the first one.

First try, wrapped frame with painters tape, windex plus hand forced the glass and new seal into the frame as far as I could, installed bridge, strap, tightened down. Thought it went together ok but saw I had some areas where I wasn’t happy with the way the inner seal settled in the frame. Took it apart, tried it again. Minor improvement and went together easier but gap where frame joined also got bigger which I thought was weird. Got it all apart and realized that the rivet holes expanded exhibiting some tensile failure. Really bummed about it but I think I’ll still be able to use it until I find a nicer frame to try again. Anyone have a single driver’s side 56-64 pop out frame in their parts pile?
Squeeze setup:

Tensile failure:

Waited til the morning for the passenger side. Paid a lot more attention to how I opened up the frame to allow the glass back in this time. Kept the bending in the long ‘straight’ sections and away from the curve at the rear. Was thinking less stress near rivets is better, and concave lower curve would help hold it straight to the glass when you bend it back around. Also first step was to ratchet the window all the way backwards into the c pillar area before hand bending the longer edges around the window. It worked way better. No damage to rivet holes or the anodizing even though I didn’t really mask it this time either. The inner seals are still kinda wonky around the rivets. Maybe a better lube than windex could prevent this but I think I might just razor off the extra or just leave it alone.
Here’s the resulting pair with inner and outer seals. Took about 60min/window for the outers alone.

Next will be getting the latch assemblies on. Reproduction assemblies are kinda junky. Profile not even close to the profile of the frame, even after manually filing down the casting nub that the manufacturer didn’t do before chrome plating. Going to try improving with dremel tool.
Comparison to OG:

[nshaddox]

First patch on the door is in. Will probably revisit with stud puller thing whenever I make the investment in one but all in all pretty satisfied with the results. Got started on the second patch. Note remnant of the wood screw that was brazed/leaded into the door for a previous mirror. Had to make a tool to start straightening out the seal channel.

Also figured out the pressing tools for the inner patch. Sprayed it flat black to show the stamping better. Happy enough with it now.

Dremel tool worked to reprofile the latches for the pop outs. All went well except one little hiccup that took some chrome off the visible side of the drivers side latch. Bummer. Not gonna stress about it, this car will be full of imperfections. Also chamfered the other side of the latches to replicate the way the OGs held the rivets in place. Installed them with my reproduction rivets and I think it all worked out pretty damn good. Only took 10+ years to redo them. Next set will be better, faster, easier.

[esde]

those pop outs are very hard to do, and yours look great. Last set I did we made some maple guides that are very similar to your printed one, and it helped a lot.
There's a set on the shelf for my 52, and I'm apprehensive about doing the inner seal, maybe I'll send em to you
Nice work on the door, I see you have the tig torch in one pic. Is that what you've been using for everything? My tig experience is limited, and I haven't had much luck with sheet thinner than 18g. Especially rusty old stock
Excellent work, I appreciate the pics.
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[nshaddox]

Thanks. Popouts were super tricky. I’m probably being overly critical on myself. They do look really good even at 1’ away. It’s expensive to learn. I have to keep reminding myself of that.

Yea I’ve pretty much converted 99% over to TIG since I bought my machine a couple years ago. I mostly bought it to branch out into other metals. I’ve done some aluminum jobs for friends, but all thick castings which was pretty easy with the AC TIG set up, no sheet Al-yet. Did some stainless stuff for a friend too. I like how with steel once you are as familiar as I am with the way the puddle should look it’s pretty easy to move from one type of welding to another. The TIG is hard to beat because it’s like a 5:1 compared to MIG on how much puddle control you have and how much slower you can control the heat if that makes sense.

I did use the MIG for the first time in months today as well. Shout out to David for the hookup on the ribbed door bits I was looking for. Used the MIG to get the broken M6 screw out of the new to me window divider. Tried the TIG first but it was sheared off pretty deep in the hole and the TIG wanted to arc onto the bracket, which became annoying when the puddles joined. There’s a welder for every purpose. The MIG is pretty much my favorite for broken hardware removal or awkward to reach locations. TIG for all panel joinery and a majority of plug welding work. Gas torch has its uses too, will be using that to replicate wherever the factory used it.

Kinda wish I’d bought the TIG before doing the bubble car build. Would have come out that much nicer.

[VW_Jimbo]

Love seeing the progress! That stamping of the door bolt holes came out better than I thought it would. Very nice job! All that from the picture I sent you? If so, freaking amazing!!!!

Nice job on the pop outs! I always send them out to get the rubber replaced. I like my fingertips, ALOT!

Talk to you soon!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[nshaddox]

Yea Jimbo your pics helped a bit. I did some cross referencing between those and my mismatched doors. Pretty pleased with the stamping too.

Big priority lately has been basement waterproofing at the rental property. Lots of shovel time and back lifting. I’ve managed to get an hour or two here or there in but didn’t really feel like I was making big enough progress each time to justify a thread update. Happy to say that I finally feel the need.

All the externally visible upper door repairs are ‘done’. Ha. Still so much to go on this dumb door. Have to fab a partial seal channel for the vent window seal, further refine the finish on the repairs I just ‘completed,’ and then there’s still the lower hinge install and lower outer skin. Maybe by the end of summer? Ha.

Photo dump:

Metal moved around a bit more than I wanted during the welding process but maybe a stud welder will help me improve the finish a bit more. Everything is so thin.

[nshaddox]

well, I've been busy, but very little zwitter progress on which to report out. started fitting lower hinge to new virtanen door inner. found the predrilled holes in the outer skin of the inner door were not located correctly. Ive got the thru holes to the reinforcement piece located correctly (I think) now, but had to open up the outer holes and still need to partially weld those closed and reopen in correct location. just kinda not motivated to get it done because I think its going to be tricky.

I want to get it done soon, but stuff keeps happening. Tried to go to a VW show this weekend to swap some spare parts w/Wheelie Pete and blew up the fiber cam gear in my truck on the way out there. estimating only 20-30k on it since the engine rebuild a few years ago, but found enough other stuff I didn't like to decide to pull the motor again, so that was my Sunday. Been doing some maintenance stuff on the truck and the crown vic wagon over the last month or so. Basically I'm a full time Ford mechanic this summer. Bummed about the cam gear because the last week or so the truck has been running better than it ever has the whole time I've owned it. Oh well, could be running again in a couple weeks, or i may tackle the BW 4 spd rebuild too while i have it this far apart. synchro in Low and 1st are kinda junky these days.

had some reproduction vent window pivots made up for ribbed doors. long term plan is to do the bracket as well. Haven't had any luck finding a spring shop willing to do the high index spring.

Also dropped off all my donor chrome door bits for chrome removal w/my buddy Hot Rod Nate. Will see how they turn out. been collecting parts for the vent window rebuild, have a couple ideas to try out. already prepping for winter projects, ha.

[VW_Jimbo]

Nice! Good to read an update. I was getting ready to hit you up, but I keep forgetting to. Too damn busy!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[VW_Jimbo]

Stoping by for an update. Got anything going?
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[nshaddox]

It’s just been a summer of Fords this year. Almost have truck back together. Ended up doing a complete transmission rebuild while I had the engine out. Engine and trans back in now but might have to scoot the engine out a bit again because I realized I have the throw out bearing arm installed incorrectly. So probably 4 more hours of work and it’ll be driving again. So normally that would mean time to get back into the vws, but I have a bunch more work to do at the rental property and have a 12/1 deadline to get it done before I’m due for an inspection by the city, so that’s the next priority. I’ll update this thread when I finally make more progress on this car.

[VW_Jimbo]

[nshaddox]

Finally got a little time on this car. It’s been so long I was worried I’d forgotten how to weld and stuff. One of the benefits of a long hiatus was forgetting some of the reasons why I’d delayed getting some jobs done, like moving the passenger A pillar out a bit since the first tacks located the sealing surface for the door too far in from the frame. Probably had something to do with general worries about stuff lining up but you have to start somewhere.

Got it moved out and TIG tacked in place.

Seal surface now flush yay.

Then used my 923mm square stock to locate the B pillar and tack that in/reshape the lower fabricated piece a bit.

Then I remembered I’d kind of stopped on pillars because none of them were perpendicular to the channels like they should be. I’m not ready to sort this out yet but I thought for a while about potential ways to tackle it. I think the weight of the back of the car is pulling the B pillars backwards at the top. Could pull it back with turnbuckles maybe? Might use this set up if I do but not ready yet. Still thinking doors is the logical first step.

So with that in mind refocused on doors.
Had to close up lower hinge holes a bit from previous efforts to locate the lower hinge.

Once relatively happy with the results used m6 hardware to form the outer skin into the chamfers that help hold the hinge in place under the rivets. Then tried installing a rivet. I think this might be a 2 person job. Going to have to think about options for revisiting because juggling the torch, hammers, drifts, and balancing the door on dead stops that failed to hold the rivet head flush despite my best efforts was not working.

Then spent some time cleaning various M8 threaded weld nuts on the body. Decided to try popping out the pushed in front apron before potentially rigging up some sort of tension braces to pull the pillars in shape because I figured doing so might actually help pillars align. Never know but seems like small movements in metal in some locations end up moving metal in other locations. Hung a repop fender to help gauge where the front end was supposed to be. Pretty happy with results. Not done yet obviously but pretty sure I was able to get the front tire area of the most to move out 1-2”. Definitely looks better.

[esde]

Welcome back, and nice work. Your tig welding and attention to detail are on point as always

[nshaddox]

Thanks, been watching your thread and jimbos. Y’all are making great progress. Definitely think b pillars are more off than A pillars so makes sense that lifting the back end is probably the place to start. I want to get the doors done before I mess with it I think. Need to invest in some riveting stuff.

[Zwitterkafer]

Fascinating build thread, keep up the great work!

About pulling that front apron forward, even with the fenders: Was there also collision-related distortion found at the front lower corners of the tool shelf? If so, any tips on how to repair that?
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"Criticism comes easier than Craftsmanship"
- Zeuxius, 400 BC

[nshaddox]

Yea I could have taken more pictures of the collision repair stuff, my bad. So first to clarify, I only put like 6 bolts in the fender, I don’t have the outer a pillar in yet, so starting at the second hole from the a pillar and working towards the front I loosely hung the fender. The front three holes I left loose so that I could try moving the inner quarters forward to match the new fender. I used a harbor freight collision ram set and some wood blocks to expand the area between the back of the front bumper mounts and the tool shelf area. I do have some minor damage there still in the lower corners like you guessed, but I think it will be easier to finesse the metal there after removing what’s left of the old tire tray and apron. I tried messing with it a bit using the ram between there and the firewall, but with the apron installed and due to the pinch of the quarters there isn’t really enough room to swing hammers right now. I’ll snap some mock-up photos of yesterdays work to help further clarify next time I’m out there.