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And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project
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tilstad
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

So far so good. Brake and clutch master is in, not tightened down yet though.


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Added some sleeving around some wires,some electrical tape, and will try to glue down this foam around the booster.

The wires are a little too close with this new bigger booster.

Also had to trim off the corner of the heaterbox. Booster isnt mounted in the pic, just pushed to the side, so clearance looks much bigger than it really is.



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jlrftype7
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

Can’t speak for VW, but in BMW land that was standard practice for 80’s and 90’s clutch hoses feeding off the brake master reservoir- no clamps on the feed hose. If you had an Automatic BMW, you’d still see the plastic nipple coming off the brake reservoir for a clutch master that wasn’t there on the car due to the Automatic Trans...The plastic nipples were sealed but it was great to be able to take one off a junkyard car for a clutch car/manual trans car and just carefully remove the sealed plastic end of the nipple-
As for your part, could be leaking at the seal where the hose goes in- I’ve seen these seals turn to soft mush over time just due to age.

Get a funnel and pour some brake fluid in your clutch part via the feed hose- see what weeps on you- hard to tell from your picture
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tilstad
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

Hardly any slop in the clutch linkage, I estimate it to perhaps 0.5 mm.

I wonder if this hose was supposed to have a clamp though. No clamp on the other end either.

Do these hoses tend to start leaking? Doesn't seem that it would be any pressure in this hose, except for the gravity feed of fluid.

All the fluid is dried up, so I cant tell where the leak came from.

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levi
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:
tilstad wrote:
After alot of search for the missing old clutch master cylinder, and almost ordering a new clutch rod, clevis and pin, it turns out it was never taken off. Still sitting in there, kind of hard to see. Brick wall


Now would be a good time to inspect for excessive play at hole on clutch pedal where that clevis pin fits.

Neil.


Yes Yes Yes
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

tilstad wrote:
After alot of search for the missing old clutch master cylinder, and almost ordering a new clutch rod, clevis and pin, it turns out it was never taken off. Still sitting in there, kind of hard to see. Brick wall


Now would be a good time to inspect for excessive play at hole on clutch pedal where that clevis pin fits.

Neil.
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50º ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

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tilstad
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

After alot of search for the missing old clutch master cylinder, and almost ordering a new clutch rod, clevis and pin, it turns out it was never taken off. Still sitting in there, kind of hard to see. Brick wall
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tilstad
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

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Booster primed and painted, adjusted, drilled, tapped and threadlocked clevis, ready to go in.
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tilstad
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

Looking at this etka schematic, I realize my new clutch master cylinder did not come with a rod and clevis. Which means I have to source one, possibly find and reuse the old one, but then find the correctly adjusted length of this rod.

Is that possibly listed in the Bentley,or other places?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

Yes, I believe your right. I've had a -90, a -89, an -81, and now this -85. While the newer versions certainly has technical upgrades, I dont personally feel the difference in user experience warrants changing or upgrading to newer systems, if the old works as intended. So for the most part, I'll attempt to keep this van an -85.

Initially I thought I wanted to change everything to a -90, with gray interior, plastic bumpers etc. But now, i want to keep it as-is, love my perfect chrome bumpers. And the interior, I will try enhance with warm earth colors as fitting. New flooring, curtains, ceramic cups, throw blankets and pillows is already aquired, and I think it will be great! Love my brown seat piping lol

As for organization and cleanliness, good virtues for sure. I can visualize that as an inspiration and goal, especially liked the suggestion of the board. I actually have one, somewhere.

But I don't have time to wait for ideal, ill do the best I can as time allows and when i get to it. Ill be the first to admit Im spreading myself too thin, and having too many projects.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

I have an 85 also, same color.
I think the 85 was something of a transition year for these.
Some 85s I've heard have plastic coolant lines, some have metal.
Some have stamped front control arms and others cast.
I got lucky at a junkyard and switched out the front brake system from an 86.
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One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

JTbeaufort wrote:
I can tell you what I would do. First, clean and re-organize the garage/shop. Everything not involved in repairing the bus gets put away. It's my opinion that one hour of cleaning and organizing equates to four hours of productivity. Get some sawhorses and planks or plywood and make a parts table, lay everything out. Get a chair, dry erase board, beverage of choice, perhaps some tunes, and write up a punch list. Prioritize. Keep the punch list handy so you can add to it as ideas come or discoveries are made. Complete something on that punch list at least every week, if not every day. Remove all the carpet and use an electric pressure washer to clean it. Instead of brake parts cleaner and carb cleaner I use naptha and acetone (seperately) in spray pump bottles. A soak in straight purple degreaser will strip paint. It will make rubber swell, and can ruin aluminum, be advised. For more delicate metal parts like turn signal sockets, unsweetened kool-aid orange or lemon mixed triple strength does a decent job, we used it in the Navy to clean brass. If you have wi-fi, have a laptop or tablet in the shop for referring to internet info. Save upgrades and modifications until you are starting/driving/stopping/all lights work. That kind of stuff can really slow you down.

Oh, PUT TOOLS AWAY WHEN FINISHED!


Geesh.
Just reading this made me feel like I was in the army.
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One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
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Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40
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JTbeaufort
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

I can tell you what I would do. First, clean and re-organize the garage/shop. Everything not involved in repairing the bus gets put away. It's my opinion that one hour of cleaning and organizing equates to four hours of productivity. Get some sawhorses and planks or plywood and make a parts table, lay everything out. Get a chair, dry erase board, beverage of choice, perhaps some tunes, and write up a punch list. Prioritize. Keep the punch list handy so you can add to it as ideas come or discoveries are made. Complete something on that punch list at least every week, if not every day. Remove all the carpet and use an electric pressure washer to clean it. Instead of brake parts cleaner and carb cleaner I use naptha and acetone (seperately) in spray pump bottles. A soak in straight purple degreaser will strip paint. It will make rubber swell, and can ruin aluminum, be advised. For more delicate metal parts like turn signal sockets, unsweetened kool-aid orange or lemon mixed triple strength does a decent job, we used it in the Navy to clean brass. If you have wi-fi, have a laptop or tablet in the shop for referring to internet info. Save upgrades and modifications until you are starting/driving/stopping/all lights work. That kind of stuff can really slow you down.

Oh, PUT TOOLS AWAY WHEN FINISHED!
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

Agreed.

There is an O ring (15) but there is no gasket.

The O ring installs to the master cylinder.

If the master leaked, it could've damaged that O ring or over a long time, rust a hole in the booster. Either could obviously cause a vacuum leak.

Since I was looking at the brake part diagrams I mentally latched onto the "damping plates" (aka silencing shims). As mentioned, no. They aren't really needed.


Neil.
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1981 Westy air cooled to 15º ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50º ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

VE7TBN
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tilstad
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

This schematic from vanagain indicates "NO" gasket...

15 must be the O-ring I believe.


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tilstad
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

Wow, thats a great schematic. Didnt know about the shims, there was none on the old brakes. That said, its probably easy to address if necessary down the road.

No, I have the Haynes.....somewhere.

I have just shortened the booster rod, drilled and tapped the clevis, and was about to locktite the clevis at 111.5mm.

Im assuming that measirment is to the center of the clevis pin hole, and not center of the clevis itself.....?


But the big question right now, is there supposed to be a gasket between the booster and the master cylinder, or not? I do have a new O-ring, but dont see a gasket in the parts stash.

The imprint on the old booster looks like....maybe. But the O ring on the sleeve of the master is probably enough....?

The issue prompting the brake work was a big leak from somewhere under the dash. So perhaps a gasket was missing.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: And so it begins, resurrection of an old -85 westy project. Reply with quote

Yellow Rabbit wrote:
Looks like a fun project! Here’s some inspiration.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=597672


Nice. Very helpful I'm sure!

tilstad wrote:
Btw, does any exploded schematic exist on how the brake pieces, booster master cylinder & clutch cylinder, fit together, and where if any gaskets etc go?


Do you have a Bentley manual? I'm no expert, so can't verify the accuracy of these diagrams (website covers all markets but you can select "USA" market) but this website has nice diagrams and they appear to be from ETKA so are likely accurate. Here's brake etc. diagrams/listings for the '85

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/usa/vanagon/va/1985-4/6/

The early style calipers had shims from the factory but those parts may be hard to find and you likely don't need them. e.g. the ATE calipers on my '81 work ok w/o the # 5,6 shims as shown below. AFIAK, they are "silencing shims" so mainly or only serve that purpose. Modern pads tend to have a built in silencing material and judicious use of anti squeal brake goo really helps. I bought #5a, 6a Girling shims from van-cafe several years ago. They or busdepot might have shims.

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_________________
1981 Westy air cooled to 15º ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50º ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

VE7TBN
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tilstad
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: And so it begins: Resurrection of an old '85 Westy project Reply with quote

110. But i've made ice on propane before.

Seems to work even better on propane, cools quicker, atleast it seems so, completely unscientificly proven.

Could have been less than 80f perhaps. Was about 87f a little later that morning when i drove off in the car.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: And so it begins, resurrection of an old -85 westy project. Reply with quote

tilstad wrote:
Have to work some 16 hour work days, but will continue as soon as im done for the week.

In the meantime, I found the fridge makes ice in a 80F garage overnight. Seems right on par with expected performance.
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was that on propane or 110? If you got ice at a 50° differential on propane, that's amazing.
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tilstad
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: And so it begins, resurrection of an old -85 westy project. Reply with quote

Have to work some 16 hour work days, but will continue as soon as im done for the week.

In the meantime, I found the fridge makes ice in a 80F garage overnight. Seems right on par with expected performance.
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Btw, does any exploded schematic exist on how the brake pieces, booster master cylinder & clutch cylinder, fit together, and where if any gaskets etc go?

7 years is too long to remember how it came apart.



And thank you for the links and tips. I know the samba is a wealth of information. Reading it is mostly what I have done, instead of working on the car. My new mantra is "Read less, do more, utilize some of all that info already aquired from thesamba over the years."

And the financial coffers policy on the subject is "whatever it takes, but with restraint".

Defining a westy as a "summer cabin" instead of a vehicle or transportation makes a big difference. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: And so it begins, resurrection of an old -85 westy project. Reply with quote

Looks like a fun project! Here’s some inspiration.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=597672
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