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Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system
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rcroane Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

Hi folks,

I'm thinking about adding headlight relays to my 6v '65 bug. I have H4 headlights. I've searched tons of threads but can't seem to find any instructions on how to do this. I saw a reference to putting them in the headlight buckets, but I need help in understanding how to wire them in.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

This one's pretty helpful...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=492821&highlight=add++relay


This place is showing a Bosch 6V 30A relay, about 1/3 of the way down the page. http://www.texasindustrialelectric.com/relays.asp

Finding the 6V relay may be the only hurdle...hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

Busstom wrote:
This one's pretty helpful...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=492821&highlight=add++relay


This place is showing a Bosch 6V 30A relay, about 1/3 of the way down the page. http://www.texasindustrialelectric.com/relays.asp

Finding the 6V relay may be the only hurdle...hope this helps.


Thanks. Actually the 6v relays are easy to find. WW sells one. Appreciate the link. Hoping to find something that is more specific to my situation and dumbs it down for me. Electrics are not my strength. In other words, where do I put the relays and how do I run the wires?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

If you are going to the trouble of running a power cable from the battery to the dashboard area, I would also run an earth cable from the battery similarly and put an earth post behind the dash. You can use this earth post for a multitude of purposes and not have to worry about voltage drops on the return side of a circuit.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If you want to do the job really properly use a Blue Sea 5025 fuse block. This has a negative bus also and makes wiring really easy. Blue Sea electrical power components are about the best you can buy.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:37 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

My googlefu found this.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=646423
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

Sharp64 wrote:
My googlefu found this.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=646423


Thanks for this. I like the approach posted by MMcarthy.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

rcroane wrote:
Sharp64 wrote:
My googlefu found this.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=646423


Thanks for this. I like the approach posted by MMcarthy.


I also saw a page come up for Jbugs with some options. Seemed to confirm the ones in the link I posted.

I'm watching your threads to see how it goes. I had considered adding relays and such to my 60, but after looking at some things, I just went to 12v. I know the whole schmiel about 6v being as good as 12v, and I get the "science" behind it, but in the real world it doesn't seem to hold true at times. At least not from what I have seen.

Good luck.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

Sharp64 wrote:
rcroane wrote:
Sharp64 wrote:
My googlefu found this.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=646423


Thanks for this. I like the approach posted by MMcarthy.


I also saw a page come up for Jbugs with some options. Seemed to confirm the ones in the link I posted.

I'm watching your threads to see how it goes. I had considered adding relays and such to my 60, but after looking at some things, I just went to 12v. I know the whole schmiel about 6v being as good as 12v, and I get the "science" behind it, but in the real world it doesn't seem to hold true at times. At least not from what I have seen.

Good luck.


Thanks. My 6v system works pretty well and I'm usually a "keep it stock" guy. But, modern technology like relays, electronic signal flashers, and LED brake/tail lights are out of sight and easily reversible. I just added a relay for my horn and for the first time it works with the lights on!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

I get the sentiment. Good luck man.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

A nifty solid state relay that is the subject of a Porsche 356 Registry upgrade is the Magnecraft W9AS1D52-5. Although rated at 5 volts, it works fine in the 6 volt car.

I bought these for my 356, works great. Many 356ers have done this conversion for brighter 6 volt lamps.

Link...

https://octopart.com/9as1d52-5-magnecraft-6786223


I added two inside each headlight bucket, one high, one low beam each bucket. Hidden and functional.


Bug On, Brightly!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
A nifty solid state relay that is the subject of a Porsche 356 Registry upgrade is the Magnecraft W9AS1D52-5. Although rated at 5 volts, it works fine in the 6 volt car.

I bought these for my 356, works great. Many 356ers have done this conversion for brighter 6 volt lamps.

Link...

https://octopart.com/9as1d52-5-magnecraft-6786223


I added two inside each headlight bucket, one high, one low beam each bucket. Hidden and functional.


Bug On, Brightly!


Thanks, Bluebus. I used your wiring diagram to add a horn relay. Any chance you have one for your headlight relays, or can you walk me through the connections?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

rcroane wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
A nifty solid state relay that is the subject of a Porsche 356 Registry upgrade is the Magnecraft W9AS1D52-5. Although rated at 5 volts, it works fine in the 6 volt car.

I bought these for my 356, works great. Many 356ers have done this conversion for brighter 6 volt lamps.

Link...

https://octopart.com/9as1d52-5-magnecraft-6786223


I added two inside each headlight bucket, one high, one low beam each bucket. Hidden and functional.


Bug On, Brightly!


Thanks, Bluebus. I used your wiring diagram to add a horn relay. Any chance you have one for your headlight relays, or can you walk me through the connections?


I used the stock headlight wires in the bucket to trigger the relays. Relays received power thru a one each heavy gage wire ran into the buckets, it was a tight fit getting them in the conduit, but they fit. these wires, four total (left, right, hi, low) cam from battery and have inline fuses near the battery connection on each of the four wires. In the 356 the battery is in the trunk, easy, for the Bug you will want to find a good route from battery for them, or use an existing heavy wire from battery that is in the dash already, and hook up the four fused wires from that one (the existing power wire from battery to light switch can be the power source for the four fused wires) Ground was made at the headlight bucket for the relay trigger.

Bug On!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
rcroane wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
A nifty solid state relay that is the subject of a Porsche 356 Registry upgrade is the Magnecraft W9AS1D52-5. Although rated at 5 volts, it works fine in the 6 volt car.

I bought these for my 356, works great. Many 356ers have done this conversion for brighter 6 volt lamps.

Link...

https://octopart.com/9as1d52-5-magnecraft-6786223


I added two inside each headlight bucket, one high, one low beam each bucket. Hidden and functional.


Bug On, Brightly!


Thanks, Bluebus. I used your wiring diagram to add a horn relay. Any chance you have one for your headlight relays, or can you walk me through the connections?


I used the stock headlight wires in the bucket to trigger the relays. Relays received power thru a one each heavy gage wire ran into the buckets, it was a tight fit getting them in the conduit, but they fit. these wires, four total (left, right, hi, low) cam from battery and have inline fuses near the battery connection on each of the four wires. In the 356 the battery is in the trunk, easy, for the Bug you will want to find a good route from battery for them, or use an existing heavy wire from battery that is in the dash already, and hook up the four fused wires from that one (the existing power wire from battery to light switch can be the power source for the four fused wires) Ground was made at the headlight bucket for the relay trigger.

Bug On!


Thanks. Did you happen to see the link provided by Sharp64 above. Curious what you think of MMCARTHY's solution? Looks like he is putting the relay before the floor dimmer switch. Can't say I understand the wiring description.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

If all you want is a relay for the headlights, just re-wire it like the '66 model year, and add the headlight dip button to your turn signal stalk. The holes in the stalk are already drilled and tapped for you, since this was an option on some cars already.

Not only is this more convenient, you add the high beam "flash to pass" option, and have reduces voltage drops using the relay.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

rcroane wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
rcroane wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
A nifty solid state relay that is the subject of a Porsche 356 Registry upgrade is the Magnecraft W9AS1D52-5. Although rated at 5 volts, it works fine in the 6 volt car.

I bought these for my 356, works great. Many 356ers have done this conversion for brighter 6 volt lamps.

Link...

https://octopart.com/9as1d52-5-magnecraft-6786223


I added two inside each headlight bucket, one high, one low beam each bucket. Hidden and functional.


Bug On, Brightly!


Thanks, Bluebus. I used your wiring diagram to add a horn relay. Any chance you have one for your headlight relays, or can you walk me through the connections?


I used the stock headlight wires in the bucket to trigger the relays. Relays received power thru a one each heavy gage wire ran into the buckets, it was a tight fit getting them in the conduit, but they fit. these wires, four total (left, right, hi, low) cam from battery and have inline fuses near the battery connection on each of the four wires. In the 356 the battery is in the trunk, easy, for the Bug you will want to find a good route from battery for them, or use an existing heavy wire from battery that is in the dash already, and hook up the four fused wires from that one (the existing power wire from battery to light switch can be the power source for the four fused wires) Ground was made at the headlight bucket for the relay trigger.

Bug On!


Thanks. Did you happen to see the link provided by Sharp64 above. Curious what you think of MMCARTHY's solution? Looks like he is putting the relay before the floor dimmer switch. Can't say I understand the wiring description.


yes you can use 2 rather than 4 relays. For my car I wanted to hide the relays in the buckets and minimize number of wires, so 4 relays allowed me to not have to run a pair of wires between the buckets. Had i used 2 relays in one bucket, that bucket would need three additional wires run thru the conduit, with 4 relays total, ie. 2 relays in each bucket only two additional wires are run thru that tiny conduit to each bucket.

Another advantage to 4 relays is that a single failure will cause only one side, and one beam to fail. with 2 relays a single failure and you lose either both hi, or both lo beams. Note VW and most other car makers have been using four separate circuits for headlamps, four separate fuses, one each for left hi, left lo, right high, right lo.
also putting relays nearest the lights does increase voltage too the bulbs, if the relays are before the hi/lo beam switch, then you suffer from what ever voltage drop is across that hi/lo beam switch. If relays are mounted after that switch, then you bypass that voltage drop.

Bug On!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

Thanks, Bluebus. I really like the idea of hiding the relays in the bucket. What gauge wire would you recommend to power the relays?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

rcroane wrote:
Thanks, Bluebus. I really like the idea of hiding the relays in the bucket. What gauge wire would you recommend to power the relays?


See this link for wire size chart.
********* Note: chart is sized for 12 volt, you need double the amps when using these charts for 6 volts!**********

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Marine-Wire-Size-And-Ampacity


and see this other link for a brief but excellent tutorial on wiring your boat, of course your car wire system is pretty much the same fundamentally.

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Marine-Wire-Terminal-Tech-Specs

note that when you bundle wires the current rating is reduced, this is well covered in the link.

I used this reference frequently over the years, very handy, print it out and post in your shop!

Bug On!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

The simple way is to install VW kit part number 111 998 113 which includes the 6 volt relay and indicator stalk button.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

Meiang wrote:
The simple way is to install VW kit part number 111 998 113 which includes the 6 volt relay and indicator stalk button.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks....want to sell me that one?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Adding headlight relays to '65 6v system Reply with quote

Thanks, all. I've decided to go the route of installing the '66 style switch and relay. Parts on order. May reach out for some installation guidance when they arrive.
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