003 automatic (rebuilding)

[PEPPE]

where can be purchased a 003 automatic gearbox ? in europe they are not many of them around, maybe that in Usa there is a better availability.

[Wildthings]

There are some differences between various 003 boxes. The gearing for a Type 4 car 003 would cause the tranny to burn up within miles if it were to be used in a bus.

Just put a Want To Buy ad in the Samba classifieds.

[raygreenwood]

[Wildthings]

That is as much as a 20% difference in tractive effort between the various boxes, so very significant. Type 4 cars were notorious for burning up their transmissions whereas buses are not, so dropping the tractive effort by 20% and a bus would likely be in trouble. On a Type 4 at least part of the damage to the tranny occurred when backing up, so maybe there are differences there, IIRC reverse is higher geared than first in an 003. There may be differences in the stock torque converters was well. IIRC, the Type 4 car had a TC with a 1700 rpm stall, while by the time the water cooled Vanagon (010 & 090 boxes) came out the stall speed had crept up to 2700. Not sure what was used in the earliest automatic buses, but very possibly it had a higher stall speed than the car TC.

I am 100% sure that the size of one of the pistons was increased over time as well, so there are several factors that would make buying the correct 003 for a bus important. Between the gearing, the TC, and the piston, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the tractive effort available to get moving from a stop with a bus 003 was higher by a factor of much more than 20% when compared to a car 003, maybe in the 30-40% range.

[raygreenwood]

The tractive effort difference because of rpm/torque band was indeed a big difference between the final drive sets in the 003 trans used on bus as compared to car versions.

However that just changes what you are capable of using the vehicle for load wise.....and as I STATED already......just change the differential to a bus differential. Its quick and non invasive. Outside of the differential section there are no significant differences between any of the 003 trans that would prevent you from swapping into any VW.

Yes.....the torque converters for bus have a higher stall/lock up point. And.....its readily changeable/usable in a type 4 or type 3 car.....but the one from a type 3 or 4 (same part # between them) while technically "usable" in a bus.....already done that in a pinch.....its not ideal. It can make for rough take offs as even though there is no torque shortage down low/off idle with a bus version of the type 4 engine. It applies lock up too low in the rpm range.


Type 4 cars were NOT notorious for burning up transmissions at all.....no more than any other vehicle using the 003 trans. Having probably worked on more type 4 cars than virtually anyone in any of these forums save for a few retired dealer reps.....I can tell you that the type 4 cars had no more or less issues than the type 3 cars that the transmissions originally came from. The two types of vehicle were within 300 lbs of each other in either variant sedan to wagon.

The wagon version of both used the same final drive. The sedans used slightly different ones.

What type 003 trans WERE notorious for....and are in buses as well.....is transfer of fluid between final drive and transfer case when the seal fails. If the seals are kept in good shape.....you can easily drive a 003 to 300,000 plus miles.....roughly two average engine lifes depending on the owners diligence.

To the original poster.....yes....if you find a 003 trans drom a type 4 or type 3 car....you can use it in your bus. Just pay attention to outfitting properly. You need the differntial, torque converter and modulator valve. later vehicles sometimes did not have a modulator valve....but if the original application of the transmission you pick up had one....you need to use it and adjust it properly with gauges for best driveability . Ray

[Wildthings]

Ray, I doubt that the guy wants to buy two 003 transaxles and have them shipped from the states to Italy so he can take the automatic section from one and mate it to the final drive section from the other. That seems rather inane compared with just buying the proper bus 003 to begin with. I would suggest that he contact German Transaxle and see if they have a rebuilt bus 003 on their shelves.

The horrid performance and dependability of the Type 4 car when equipped with an automatic transmission is legendary and was a major killer to sales. No one wanted a car that couldn't get out its own way and couldn't back up even a moderately steep driveway without smoking the tranny.

FWIW, if I were to ever own an automatic Type 4 car again, I would look for and install a bus transaxle to gain the extra tractive effort. I don't need to be able to drive 80, but I do want good performance on the hills.

[PEPPE]

yes, it was not to experiment thing. i was needind an advice about a "good" place to ask for a rebuilt tranny, to help a friend. we are not familiar with those things in italy. automatic cars are very rare. here, for decades there were only used by disabled people.

so, german transaxles is a good place?

[Wildthings]