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How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy
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oprn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
914-6 was quicker and out handled the 911.

Got a friend with a 914 and put a 3.2 Carrera engine in. It's a go kart with 300hp.


The 914 was not as popular as the 944 and produced from '69 to '74 or maybe '75. Very few 914-6s were made. They were 2.0 liter versions and only had slightly more power than the later 2.0 liter type 4 powered ones.

Yes all the 914s out handled the 911s.

Interesting tid bit: The bodies on the 924, 944, 928, 951, 968 series cars were galvanized and out lasted the 914 and 911 series! There are very few rusted out 944s out there, don't buy one that is because there are so many that are not.
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I think all Porsches after 1976 we're galvanized.

914s are notorious for rotted suspension pickup points.

The 923 bridged the gap between the 914 and 924.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Back to the "how much power" question, The 914 was no barn burner but it was a pile of fun to drive. On the other end of the scale my cousin built a replica AC Cobra with a circle track built 460 and 5 speed manual transmission. Last summer was the first time he had driven it any distance after 6 years of putting it together. Yup, he let me drive it. Scary fast! Very loud, very uncomfortable, butt numbing vibration machine, gets 14 mpg and has a 1.5 hour range between fill ups.


He told me the other day it is for sale. His wife is sick of it already and he won't take it far from home due to the fuel consumption.

That is the extreme side of more power.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

944's especially the later turbos are pretty good cars. Light years better than a POS 924. That is until you have to replace the timing and balance shaft belts or a clutch.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
The 923 bridged the gap between the 914 and 924.


I was not aware of a 923. Tell me more!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

1976 Porsche 912E. It was a stripped down 911 with a 914 engine. The unique parts such as engine surround tin has a 923 part number.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I think the 944 is brilliantly designed and constructed......but had to give you a hard time because it's clearly not a dune buggy and would be absolute crap at doing anything that a dune buggy does.
It probably was conceived as an ideal sportscar, like the MX5, both of which IMO.....missed the mark with the best of aim, but got a little better as time went on and "maybe could have been great be great if only....."

Actually feels like we torched something deep here tho.

Porsche had something right, on a basic level.
ALL of the designs that came after...... improvements, and/or spiritual successors that came after, all did something or another better, WAY better, than the original.....of course. Meaning, all porches and VW SINCE, I'm not going to list them.

But on a basic level, far as,....."adapt to the machine or adapt the machine to you"
OR "Don't work for the machine make the machine work for you"
I think it's possible.... not a lick progress has been made.

Yeah sure make it handle better, or faster, or better acceleration, galvanized body, more gears, better suspension, more MPG, features, on and on and on.. There are a zillion combinations that are better st something and worse at another, but a lot of it is trying to tailor the vehicle to the driver's desires.....which may not be so smart anyway.

EXAMPLE. Vise grip with patented opening mechanism, the VW type-1, the Bridgeport J-head milling machine, the weber IDF carbutetor. (Maybe even the dune buggy....but I'm not certain) These are classic brilliant designs, which have inspired generations and been copied and developed and adapted to death, yet none eclipsed the original. Every smart fella thinks that they can build a better one....but they won't be so lucky. Any attempt at incorporating yourself into the design will likely be going the wrong way, if you have not fully incorporated the design into yourself.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:25 am    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Well, I guess I will weigh in at this point, as you guys have started touching on exactly what I went through late last year.
firstly Glenn, really 280z vs 944? I had both (at the same time, no less) the 280z was better power wise than the 924, but the 924 out handled the 280z.
The 944 brought the power closer to even, but really couldnt match the TQ of the 6 (lovely pull on that 280z). 944 still handled much better then the 280z

Secondly, I decided to finally drop the Ghia as a DD, and get into something more "modern", I looked and reasearched, and drove a truly stupid amount of cars.
Finally I came down to realize that lightweight is what trips my trigger and makes it fun.
2200lb, 138hp, 125tq. Plenty of tire, and more brakes than is needed.
And actually fits my 6'2" height
It do have to watch it, as it can exceed 90mph pretty damn quickly.
2004 Toyota Mr2
Anything heavy just felt so dull.

And yes, I came very very close to buying a 944S/T/S2

As to how this relates to the whole thread,..... in a car that weighs as little as our bugs/ghias, 140-150 hp is plenty to get into real trouble with.
60hp will keep up with traffic just fine (80mph)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Its a VERY relative question. Over time I have had customers that got scared with me showing what a simple 70 hp std plus engine could do in a nice 69 beetle with souped up suspension. I have also had customers that didnt even get a raised pulse when we were going sideways with 70 +mph in a 220 hp super beetle.
Personally I like an engine around 2litre and 130-140 hp for daily driving (in a beetle) I'm also a sucker for my 180 hp 2260 type 4. Great engine in a well balanced beetle.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

helowrench wrote:
As to how this relates to the whole thread,..... in a car that weighs as little as our bugs/ghias, 140-150 hp is plenty to get into real trouble with.
60hp will keep up with traffic just fine (80mph)


Amen! That's the truth!


Yes if only my 944 was 800 lbs lighter...


Compared with a lot of cars these air cooled VWs are truly a pile of poop but I grew up on them and they are in my blood, I can wrench them, and this Buggy brings smiles to everyone's face like no other car I have ever owned! Everyone loves it even people that won't ride in it because it looks too dangerous (!?) still can't stop staring at it and grinning.


Last edited by oprn on Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
Great engine in a well balanced beetle.

Speaking of relitive terms... well ballanced Beetle? Wink

Sorry! Couldn't let that one pass. Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Alstrup wrote:
Great engine in a well balanced beetle.

Speaking of relitive terms... well ballanced Beetle? Wink

Sorry! Couldn't let that one pass. Laughing

Yeah, when I got the Spyder, the online guys were trying to inform me about its tendency for snap oversteer.

After a Bug and a Ghia, this thing is a pussycat.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I have almost no oversteer, snap or otherwise in my 1960
You just have to get the tires and shocks and springs right, which isn't that hard....but very few bother.
Looks like 90% instead choose tires and wheels based on appearance, and springs and shocks based on ride quality. That fits the theme too.
VW had it right to begin with, for the tires of the time, but through the 60's kept tweaking the suspension to get better ride quality...... and it wasn't worth it IMO. A light car can't have the kind of ride as a heavy beast.....and I think you just have to accept it and deal somehow.....and we all seem to like light cars! I do too. Passengers seem to think the ride quality is fine?? I guess maybe it is.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I was thinking about the title to this thread... then it dawned on me.... some people are happy with their 25 or 36 hp cars....so it's all a matter of perspective and taste.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

mark tucker wrote:
I was thinking about the title to this thread... then it dawned on me.... some people are happy with their 25 or 36 hp cars....so it's all a matter of perspective and taste.

Nicely stated Mark. I totally agree.

I have a 09 Pontiac G8 GT Sport. 361hp, 360Trq. That thing rips. Do I drive it everyday? Nope.
My 67 Beetle makes me happy every mile I drive the car.
Yea, even on a hot day. I just park the car in the parking garage at work and get a fairly cool ride home.

BTW Mark. Nice post! Not one miss spelled word. Shocked
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
mark tucker wrote:
I was thinking about the title to this thread... then it dawned on me.... some people are happy with their 25 or 36 hp cars....so it's all a matter of perspective and taste.

Nicely stated Mark. I totally agree.

BTW Mark. Nice post! Not one miss spelled word. Shocked

Damn.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
67rustavenger wrote:
mark tucker wrote:
I was thinking about the title to this thread... then it dawned on me.... some people are happy with their 25 or 36 hp cars....so it's all a matter of perspective and taste.

Nicely stated Mark. I totally agree.

BTW Mark. Nice post! Not one miss spelled word. Shocked

Damn.

Someone must have hacked his account, my take on the thread is give me 100hp and as much torque as I can get.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

holly multi page thread hijack,,,,, every question in the automotive industry answered ,,, accept ,,,,,,,,,,,, aim for 100 to 125 hp and you will be very happy in a car that came with 40-53hp double to triple the stock hp in anything minibike,bulldozer,mack truck, p.o.s. astro van and it will be a hoot to drive period,!!! im thinkin a nice painless 1914 with nice (not nuts) heads outta do it fabricator john
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
mark tucker wrote:
I was thinking about the title to this thread... then it dawned on me.... some people are happy with their 25 or 36 hp cars....so it's all a matter of perspective and taste.

Nicely stated Mark. I totally agree.



I've been following this thread, and while I love some horsepower in my beetles or buses, I also have an all original, numbers matching engine, '51 split with its 25hp/full crash. I drive it everywhere, some 500+ mile road trips.

so yeah, its all relative.

my 58 sunroof bus will have a 200+ hp turbo engine though Wink



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