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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26787
Location: Colorado Springs
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 Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| I'm glad you like the 944 but I don't see how driving it would be enjoyable. At least in a minivan you would have a better view of the road, and faster acceleration. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12730
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| nextgen wrote: |
| our cars are a “ancient design” and on top of that we made each one unique. The sounds of the blower, Exhaust, the Smell, Crank Windows, no remote door locks, it is so different from Modern Cars I get a rush driving it. Also, enjoy the fact, they are head turners, always smiles and comments where ever I park, that goes for any year in any shape. |
I was thinking about this today and in reality you don't have to go all that much newer to get a lot more car than the VW could ever hope to be. A few years back I came across an '83 944 in ok condition and picked it up for $4500. That car in stock 30+ year old form is so far above and beyond any VW I have ever owned or ridden in that it defies logic that I would ever consider putting time and money into a VW project.
It came with a base 140 HP fuel injected engine that moves that car along pretty briskly. It has road handling and cornering power in stock form that rivals all but the most sophisticated new sports car offering. This whole car in drivable shape for just the price of a quality rebuild on a stock Beetle engine.
There are Hondas, Toyotas, and a host of others that are similar I'm sure.
Fast forward to my present Dune Buggy project, if I was to be honest I have over $9000 in it right now and I have a ways to go yet. When I am all done it will only have a shadow of the performance the 944 has stock.
Why am I doing this? Because it is unique, fun to drive and puts a smile on everyone's face. No practical reason what so ever! |
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kadub
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2004
Posts: 444
Location: Auburn, Wa
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
| ... I do miss having the 36hp motor and enjoying the view and not being in a hurry taking time to stop and smell the roses.if I could do it all over again I would have left the 36hp motor in.. |
That's a sign that you've had more than enough power under you, and learned to appreciate that less is actually more sometimes. I share your feelings. This took me forever to build, it's like a rolling experiment. It's not really a speed demon, but sounds and moves like a "race car" below 90mph (scared to go faster). It usually sits in my garage and gathers dust these days. I've changed my priorities and enjoy driving our Vanagon much more 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4saHaQhAp0
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Karl
aka Turbobaja |
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nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6028
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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Oprn
“In this modern world of computer run factory muscle cars we in our ancient air cooled VWs”
What Oprn you said flashed me back to reality - our cars are a “ancient design” and on top of that we made each one unique. The sounds of the blower, Exhaust, the Smell, Crank Windows, no remote door locks, it is so different from Modern Cars I get a rush driving it. Also, enjoy the fact, they are head turners, always smiles and comments where ever I park, that goes for any year in any shape.
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12730
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:56 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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I had a 1600DP in my Manx copy and around town it moved out just fine but on the highway in traffic I was using the top 1/3 of the gas peddle most of the time. Now I have a mild 1911 type 4 engine in it and even at 70 mph I am still on the idle circuit. No idea what HP I have but I am happy with how it goes. Would more be better? More fun yes but in a 1400 pound short wheelbase rear heavy plastic toy car... at some point not too much further up the HP scale I will become a liability to myself and others.
In this modern world of computer run factory muscle cars we in our ancient air cooled VWs just don't have a hope of winning the HP or the handling race! |
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gprudenciop
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 606
Location: portland or
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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Thank you dauz! Wish I could keep the deck lid off like yours but my motor would drown around here.
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Loaning someone your strength instead of reminding them of their weakness = kindness.. |
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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1790
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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I love your bug! |
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Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| gprudenciop wrote: |
Yup!! Trust me I have checked!!!
It's not just about the motor it has to be everything working together. Subarugears transmission,in the front added castor, rack and pinion steering,the right oil shocks(narrowed),sway bar,disk brakes with dual master cylinders for front/back adjustment,28mm torsions with 26 5/8 length for rebound softness,flipped trailing arms,gas shocks.sway bar and lowered a bit to help at speed.it makes it very stable and I am very happy with the power and don't need any more. I do miss having the 36hp motor and enjoying the view and not being in a hurry taking time to stop and smell the roses. |
I'm not trying to disrespect your car, but my 74 Beetle has quite a bit of suspension mods along with a 2180 and Berg 5. And i've driven a 2018 STI and there's no comparison to the handling.
My 2016 Impreza was totaled last November and I was seriously considering getting a STi to replace it. The dealership lent me a 2018 for a weekend. The car was a blast, i could justify the added cost to purchase, but couldn't justify the added cost of fuel and maint. I keep cars for a long time and figured a STi with 200,000+ miles might be a money pit. |
I sampled and even rented many of the 3000+lb modern performance cars and decided I did not like any of them, even the one with 455 NA hp. Settled on a 2330 lb 2016 Mazda ND MX-5. Long live the light weight sports car. Saved 8k in not buying a new one. My second choice was a Caddy ATS 2.0t.
Dan |
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gprudenciop
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 606
Location: portland or
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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To answer at 100 mph it's ok not bad. I have relocated the battery and everything to the front for better distribution also the radiator and water up front.as for tires I'm on 17s and run all weathers and they do ok.this is my work car and it runs at 70mph in the rain/winter. I take it down for three weeks in the summer for maintenance and to get it ready for winter...
And the ones that make me laugh are the charger owners.they can't believe I beat them so they race me again but I normally run 18 psi with just my water/air intercooler so second time I table switch to 25psi spraying meth... you should see their faces or not cause they turn off or slow down.....
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Never look down at anybody unless you are helping them up..
Loaning someone your strength instead of reminding them of their weakness = kindness.. |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3466
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| nextgen wrote: |
But 80 is fine on highways with A holes in tuner cars riding your ass and weaving and cutting in front of you if you give them a inch to get in.
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I would not try to mix it up with a guy in a WRX STi at high speed. |
Unless your in an sti too!
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Nice Job! Considering a STI is 1,300lbs heavier then your car, I bet you can smoke them in a straight line pretty easy! (STI's weigh 3,300lbs)
With all ur suspension mods, and being so much lighter, I bet you can embarrass some sti owners in the twisties also. |
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nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6028
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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"power is like money.never seems to be enough...well something like that any way.enough is almost what you want, but you still want more...and more is always something to strive for.so in the end...there is never enough. but at some point you will of had enough of it...then comes the relapse. "
Mark Tucker, -- Mark the philosopher -- That was heavy, very profound, !!!! ha!!
I had to read that 4 times!!!!!
Back to the Subie question.
"Ok so you like more power-- BUT how does it drive at 100 mph, serious
It must weight more ( how much ) water etc and that should help keep keeping it down. Tires etc "
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email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76937
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
| If we are talking about handling than yes I agree the sti with its all wheel/suspension is superior. |
That's the whole point of the STi.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1790
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| 70-90hp in stock trim would be nice. |
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gprudenciop
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 606
Location: portland or
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:57 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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If we are talking about handling than yes I agree the sti with its all wheel/suspension is superior.
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Never look down at anybody unless you are helping them up..
Loaning someone your strength instead of reminding them of their weakness = kindness.. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76937
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:48 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
Yup!! Trust me I have checked!!!
It's not just about the motor it has to be everything working together. Subarugears transmission,in the front added castor, rack and pinion steering,the right oil shocks(narrowed),sway bar,disk brakes with dual master cylinders for front/back adjustment,28mm torsions with 26 5/8 length for rebound softness,flipped trailing arms,gas shocks.sway bar and lowered a bit to help at speed.it makes it very stable and I am very happy with the power and don't need any more. I do miss having the 36hp motor and enjoying the view and not being in a hurry taking time to stop and smell the roses. |
I'm not trying to disrespect your car, but my 74 Beetle has quite a bit of suspension mods along with a 2180 and Berg 5. And i've driven a 2018 STI and there's no comparison to the handling.
My 2016 Impreza was totaled last November and I was seriously considering getting a STi to replace it. The dealership lent me a 2018 for a weekend. The car was a blast, i could justify the added cost to purchase, but couldn't justify the added cost of fuel and maint. I keep cars for a long time and figured a STi with 200,000+ miles might be a money pit.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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gprudenciop
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 606
Location: portland or
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:36 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| gprudenciop wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| nextgen wrote: |
But 80 is fine on highways with A holes in tuner cars riding your ass and weaving and cutting in front of you if you give them a inch to get in.
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I would not try to mix it up with a guy in a WRX STi at high speed. |
Unless your in an sti too!
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Do you seriously think a Beetle with a Sti engine will hold it's own with a new STi?
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Yup!! Trust me I have checked!!!
It's not just about the motor it has to be everything working together. Subarugears transmission,in the front added castor, rack and pinion steering(bump steer is a killer),the right oil shocks(narrowed),sway bar,disk brakes with dual master cylinders for front/back adjustment,28mm torsions with 26 5/8 length for rebound softness,flipped trailing arms,gas shocks.sway bar and lowered a bit to help at speed.it makes it very stable and I am very happy with the power and don't need any more. I do miss having the 36hp motor and enjoying the view and not being in a hurry taking time to stop and smell the roses.if I could do it all over again I would have left the 36hp motor in..
_________________
Never look down at anybody unless you are helping them up..
Loaning someone your strength instead of reminding them of their weakness = kindness..
Last edited by gprudenciop on Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76937
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| nextgen wrote: |
But 80 is fine on highways with A holes in tuner cars riding your ass and weaving and cutting in front of you if you give them a inch to get in.
, |
I would not try to mix it up with a guy in a WRX STi at high speed. |
Unless your in an sti too!
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Do you seriously think a Beetle with a Sti engine will hold it's own with a new STi? There's a lot more than just adding power. The suspension, all wheel drive drivetrain and computer controls will allow the STi to out handle the Beetle.
if you don't think so, you should research how the Porsche 550 Spyder outran Ferrari's with V12s in the late 50s.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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FullFender
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2014
Posts: 647
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| nextgen wrote: |
Steve, I actually did replace the Bushings but left it the same height. 90 and below the car is fine and as mentioned any lower and I fear damaging the engiene also I like the look.
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I've gone a few splines down as to where I will knock off the header if I am not careful
Unless you're going Mach 4 over a speed bump you'll be fine |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:51 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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| power is like money.never seems to be enough...well something like that any way.enough is almost what you want, but you still want more...and more is always something to strive for.so in the end...there is never enough. but at some point you will of had enough of it...then comes the relapse. |
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nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6028
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:37 am Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy |
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Very nice, guys he sneaked up on me with that one!!! I did not see it coming like all the WRX's
Coil good job.
Ok so you like more power-- BUT how does it drive at 100 mph, serious
It must weight more ( how much ) water etc and that should help keep keeping it down. Tires etc
LOOK HE EVEN HAS THE SUBIE Emblem in the engine compartment.
Who would do that?
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