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How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

nextgen wrote:
I live 35 miles north of Manhattan along the Hudson River. 26 miles to cross over the George Washington Bridge into Manhattan. The Manhattan side was no problem, mostly gridlock, so a lot of clutch use. As for keeping up with traffic no problem, ha.

But the 26 to the bridge had some hills a few miles long and with my 230 lb car pool buddy and my 155 lb, our goals was to keep the engine speed up the hills at least 60 mph..
My bugs were 1600 and 1700. Lucky if 60 hp. Had to put the pedal to the metal way before the hill and left lane was a gamble. Big difference when driving alone. So I agree 100hp would have been perfect.

Car may have had larger engines but now car handle better have more HP from smaller engines and driving at 80 feels like 65 back then. So I feel it is a lot worse now in low HP bug in the left lane.
thus the reason why I see nop reason to build a small underpowered engine these days when parts are so plentyfull and cheep, and addvancements in thinking by some builders even make them work right and last too. big slugs can also be built by the retarded thinking builders....and they are built quite offten.
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I live 35 miles north of Manhattan along the Hudson River. 26 miles to cross over the George Washington Bridge into Manhattan. The Manhattan side was no problem, mostly gridlock, so a lot of clutch use. As for keeping up with traffic no problem, ha.

But the 26 to the bridge had some hills a few miles long and with my 230 lb car pool buddy and my 155 lb, our goals was to keep the engine speed up the hills at least 60 mph..
My bugs were 1600 and 1700. Lucky if 60 hp. Had to put the pedal to the metal way before the hill and left lane was a gamble. Big difference when driving alone. So I agree 100hp would have been perfect.

Car may have had larger engines but now car handle better have more HP from smaller engines and driving at 80 feels like 65 back then. So I feel it is a lot worse now in low HP bug in the left lane.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

"How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy"

No idea what it takes for other people to be happy Confused
But to be safe, living in the middle of a major east coast metropolis, I've found you need around 100hp to drive a beetle safely in traffic. Much less and you risk getting run over, cause you can't get out of the way or merge safely when traffic is congested and hustling.
I used to know some people that daily drove stock cars in the city, but they've all pretty much given up.
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Hmm I did use the word problem. Not a problem, just not good with words, maybe I should use Happy Faces!!!!!

javascript:emoticon('Laughing')
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67rustavenger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

nextgen wrote:
I agree, my rusty engine was built in the early 90's it was a rolling experiment,

Have built many others but just to get running and have fun and get me to work was goal . Actually the rusty 914 engine uses the coil only as trigger for firing my Jacobs bug pac inside the car. IF one of the electrical engineers I work with did not tell me, you better put that inside the car, it puts out very high voltage you don't want it to get wet.

I would have crammed it into the engine compartment. Hey Clean is a Art,
I guess Cramming a bunch of stuff in a small space is an art too!!!

I have a DTM I have been thinking of using. The problem with a T-4 in a bug, it gives you no reason to take out the engine it just keeps running.

And you consider this a problem? Shocked
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:56 am    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I agree, my rusty engine was built in the early 90's it was a rolling experiment,

Have built many others but just to get running and have fun and get me to work was goal . Actually the rusty 914 engine uses the coil only as trigger for firing my Jacobs bug pac inside the car. IF one of the electrical engineers I work with did not tell me, you better put that inside the car, it puts out very high voltage you don't want it to get wet.

I would have crammed it into the engine compartment. Hey Clean is a Art,
I guess Cramming a bunch of stuff in a small space is an art too!!!

I have a DTM I have been thinking of using. The problem with a T-4 in a bug, it gives you no reason to take out the engine it just keeps running.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

nextgen wrote:
I needed that photo of the old engine, talk about simple, nice.

We talk about adding electronics, getting rid of the distributor, adding fuel injection etc.


Don't get me wrong I like hp and technology but it is nice to remember were we came from.



You can still make big power, while keeping the distributor and carbs, and keep a tidy, simple engine-

fivelugshortaxle wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

(From the engine combo thread)

No linkage pictured, but you get the idea...

That build is the attention to detail and cleanliness that I admire, uncluttered and simple, nothing that isn't needed. Sure you can shove all the modern business in to it as well, but simple works, and works well. Part of driving a 50+ year old car in my opinion is keeping the vintage style and charm where you can. Different strokes for different folks.
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I needed that photo of the old engine, talk about simple, nice.

We talk about adding electronics, getting rid of the distributor, adding fuel injection etc.


Don't get me wrong I like hp and technology but it is nice to remember were we came from.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
mark tucker wrote:
I was thinking about the title to this thread... then it dawned on me.... some people are happy with their 25 or 36 hp cars....so it's all a matter of perspective and taste.

Nicely stated Mark. I totally agree.



I've been following this thread, and while I love some horsepower in my beetles or buses, I also have an all original, numbers matching engine, '51 split with its 25hp/full crash. I drive it everywhere, some 500+ mile road trips.

so yeah, its all relative.

my 58 sunroof bus will have a 200+ hp turbo engine though Wink



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

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fabricator john
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

holly multi page thread hijack,,,,, every question in the automotive industry answered ,,, accept ,,,,,,,,,,,, aim for 100 to 125 hp and you will be very happy in a car that came with 40-53hp double to triple the stock hp in anything minibike,bulldozer,mack truck, p.o.s. astro van and it will be a hoot to drive period,!!! im thinkin a nice painless 1914 with nice (not nuts) heads outta do it fabricator john
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
67rustavenger wrote:
mark tucker wrote:
I was thinking about the title to this thread... then it dawned on me.... some people are happy with their 25 or 36 hp cars....so it's all a matter of perspective and taste.

Nicely stated Mark. I totally agree.

BTW Mark. Nice post! Not one miss spelled word. Shocked

Damn.

Someone must have hacked his account, my take on the thread is give me 100hp and as much torque as I can get.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
mark tucker wrote:
I was thinking about the title to this thread... then it dawned on me.... some people are happy with their 25 or 36 hp cars....so it's all a matter of perspective and taste.

Nicely stated Mark. I totally agree.

BTW Mark. Nice post! Not one miss spelled word. Shocked

Damn.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

mark tucker wrote:
I was thinking about the title to this thread... then it dawned on me.... some people are happy with their 25 or 36 hp cars....so it's all a matter of perspective and taste.

Nicely stated Mark. I totally agree.

I have a 09 Pontiac G8 GT Sport. 361hp, 360Trq. That thing rips. Do I drive it everyday? Nope.
My 67 Beetle makes me happy every mile I drive the car.
Yea, even on a hot day. I just park the car in the parking garage at work and get a fairly cool ride home.

BTW Mark. Nice post! Not one miss spelled word. Shocked
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I was thinking about the title to this thread... then it dawned on me.... some people are happy with their 25 or 36 hp cars....so it's all a matter of perspective and taste.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I have almost no oversteer, snap or otherwise in my 1960
You just have to get the tires and shocks and springs right, which isn't that hard....but very few bother.
Looks like 90% instead choose tires and wheels based on appearance, and springs and shocks based on ride quality. That fits the theme too.
VW had it right to begin with, for the tires of the time, but through the 60's kept tweaking the suspension to get better ride quality...... and it wasn't worth it IMO. A light car can't have the kind of ride as a heavy beast.....and I think you just have to accept it and deal somehow.....and we all seem to like light cars! I do too. Passengers seem to think the ride quality is fine?? I guess maybe it is.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
Alstrup wrote:
Great engine in a well balanced beetle.

Speaking of relitive terms... well ballanced Beetle? Wink

Sorry! Couldn't let that one pass. Laughing

Yeah, when I got the Spyder, the online guys were trying to inform me about its tendency for snap oversteer.

After a Bug and a Ghia, this thing is a pussycat.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
Great engine in a well balanced beetle.

Speaking of relitive terms... well ballanced Beetle? Wink

Sorry! Couldn't let that one pass. Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

helowrench wrote:
As to how this relates to the whole thread,..... in a car that weighs as little as our bugs/ghias, 140-150 hp is plenty to get into real trouble with.
60hp will keep up with traffic just fine (80mph)


Amen! That's the truth!


Yes if only my 944 was 800 lbs lighter...


Compared with a lot of cars these air cooled VWs are truly a pile of poop but I grew up on them and they are in my blood, I can wrench them, and this Buggy brings smiles to everyone's face like no other car I have ever owned! Everyone loves it even people that won't ride in it because it looks too dangerous (!?) still can't stop staring at it and grinning.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Its a VERY relative question. Over time I have had customers that got scared with me showing what a simple 70 hp std plus engine could do in a nice 69 beetle with souped up suspension. I have also had customers that didnt even get a raised pulse when we were going sideways with 70 +mph in a 220 hp super beetle.
Personally I like an engine around 2litre and 130-140 hp for daily driving (in a beetle) I'm also a sucker for my 180 hp 2260 type 4. Great engine in a well balanced beetle.
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