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tthoms Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2016 Posts: 184 Location: Los Lunas, NM
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:11 pm Post subject: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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I've done a search on the issue, and I could find a post that exactly fit my case. I've been tooling around in my '71 bug, and I'm noticing that when I depress the clutch and move the shifter, it takes like a second or two for the shifter to allow itself to move into the desired gear. Upshifting, down shifting through any gear, it doesn't seem to matter as far as I can tell. Downshifting to second has enough resistance that I often find myself in fourth gear.
I have no problem getting into reverse.
There's not a lot of play in the clutch (again, as far as I can tell). I'm quite a novice at VW mechanics, and I'm in this late enough that I'm not 100% certain how it's supposed to feel.
Any tips as to where I should start looking to resolve this?
Thanks in advance. |
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Coyotemutt Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2017 Posts: 360 Location: Pecos, New Mexico
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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Kinda sounds like you might not have the Bowden tube in place. My shifting gets imprecise like that when the cable starts to stretch or when (over a decade ago) I first got the car and the Bowden tube was missing. |
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tthoms Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2016 Posts: 184 Location: Los Lunas, NM
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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Coyotemutt wrote: |
Kinda sounds like you might not have the Bowden tube in place. My shifting gets imprecise like that when the cable starts to stretch or when (over a decade ago) I first got the car and the Bowden tube was missing. |
I had a look. I found the Bowden tube (as well as a black widow nest, ugh), so that's not the issue. I gave the adjuster another full twist to see what difference that made. Unfortunately, it's raining now, and the car's not ready for rain.
I shifted through all of the gears with the engine off. Lots of noise coming from the shifter, and some resistance in the process of shifting. I don't know if that means anything. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26741 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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If it's not grinding going into reverse, then the clutch is letting go just fine.
What about the oil in the transmission?
is it full of sludge? air? or oil of some known qualities? |
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Casting Timmy Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2012 Posts: 1221 Location: Kansas City, Kansas
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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If you make a lot of noise shifting through the gears with the engine off, I'd start there. |
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rs58rag Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2010 Posts: 419 Location: riverside,ca
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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Easiest check is the coupler that connects the shift rod to the transmission, located under rear seat. Then there's a shift rod bushing just behind the shifter in the tunnel. Also shifter could be worn or defective, check ball end that connects to shift rod socket. Seen some dry, gouged up, unmaintained shifter ends. |
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tthoms Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2016 Posts: 184 Location: Los Lunas, NM
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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modok wrote: |
If it's not grinding going into reverse, then the clutch is letting go just fine.
What about the oil in the transmission?
is it full of sludge? air? or oil of some known qualities? |
I checked the oil a few months back. It was at the right level, and the sample I took from the top looked pretty good. However, it was from the PO, so I don't know the history. I'd better change it. |
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tthoms Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2016 Posts: 184 Location: Los Lunas, NM
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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rs58rag wrote: |
Easiest check is the coupler that connects the shift rod to the transmission, located under rear seat. Then there's a shift rod bushing just behind the shifter in the tunnel. Also shifter could be worn or defective, check ball end that connects to shift rod socket. Seen some dry, gouged up, unmaintained shifter ends. |
I'll poke around there, I've never really had a good look at these parts before. I'm hoping that if there is a problem. it will be obvious.
Thanks to all! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9880 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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I agree that the coupler sounds bad. The rubber side pieces sometimes become gummy. That causes a strange shift into and out of gears. Quick check will let you know. _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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tthoms Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2016 Posts: 184 Location: Los Lunas, NM
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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Okay, I went in and examined the contact points in question.
The coupler needs a cleaning, and there's some play in it when the shifter is moved. There's also a piece of safety wire towards the back, securing the back screw. I don't know how it is supposed to look, so I can't see anything wrong with it.
The shifter itself. I can't see anything wrong with that either.
The shifter plate and socket. As far as I can tell, ok from this angle.
Here's where I get nervous. There's a plastic ring around the rod that leads to the back. It seems to be split, and slides freely on the shaft.
That's bad, isn't it? |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9663 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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It slides freely on the shaft. Or the shaft slides through the bushing freely?
Makes a difference.
All of the bushings I have ever looked at are split and and have a retaining ring around the forward end of the bushing. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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66brm Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010 Posts: 3676 Location: Perth Western Australia
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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Wiggle the coupler back and forth, both shafts should move together, if they don't then there's a big part of the problem. Looks like the safety wire for the lock screw has broken _________________ Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval
modok wrote: |
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
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tthoms Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2016 Posts: 184 Location: Los Lunas, NM
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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66brm wrote: |
Wiggle the coupler back and forth, both shafts should move together, if they don't then there's a big part of the problem. Looks like the safety wire for the lock screw has broken |
I'll check tomorrow. |
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tthoms Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2016 Posts: 184 Location: Los Lunas, NM
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
It slides freely on the shaft. Or the shaft slides through the bushing freely?
Makes a difference.
All of the bushings I have ever looked at are split and and have a retaining ring around the forward end of the bushing. |
I can spin bushing around and slide it up and down the shaft with a q-tip. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31268 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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Sounds like the shift bushing is no longer seated in the hole in the bracket, like you need a new shift bushing. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33882 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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New one looks like this:
Here is a diagram to help you:
There are threads on how to replace this. It's a greasy job but that, along with replacing or refurbishing the coupler under the seat, will make it shift much better. Don't take shortcuts, or you will be doing it again shortly. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31268 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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I just replaced the factory shift bushing on my 1970 a few months ago, with photos on page 21 of my resurrection thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=400
I did this 2 decades ago on my 1971 Super, was a little easier because the shift rod on a 1971 Super can move forward enough so taking off front panels is not necessary.
Apparently German-made shift bushings are available, from advertisers like CB Performance. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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tthoms Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2016 Posts: 184 Location: Los Lunas, NM
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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Thanks everyone for the tips and links. I plan on replacing the bushing, and though its not obvious they need it, the rubber parts of the coupler. Ordering the parts today.
Thanks again! |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4848 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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If you replace the coupler, re-use the original cage, throw the new one in the trash and just use the new bushings. _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33882 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues |
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mcmscott wrote: |
If you replace the coupler, re-use the original cage, throw the new one in the trash and just use the new bushings. |
X2, all the metal parts of the kits I've seen are garbage. The rubber is what you are after; that's usually all that wears. |
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