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Diagnosing shifter issues
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tthoms
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

I've done a search on the issue, and I could find a post that exactly fit my case. I've been tooling around in my '71 bug, and I'm noticing that when I depress the clutch and move the shifter, it takes like a second or two for the shifter to allow itself to move into the desired gear. Upshifting, down shifting through any gear, it doesn't seem to matter as far as I can tell. Downshifting to second has enough resistance that I often find myself in fourth gear.
I have no problem getting into reverse.

There's not a lot of play in the clutch (again, as far as I can tell). I'm quite a novice at VW mechanics, and I'm in this late enough that I'm not 100% certain how it's supposed to feel.

Any tips as to where I should start looking to resolve this?

Thanks in advance.
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Coyotemutt
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Kinda sounds like you might not have the Bowden tube in place. My shifting gets imprecise like that when the cable starts to stretch or when (over a decade ago) I first got the car and the Bowden tube was missing.
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tthoms
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Coyotemutt wrote:
Kinda sounds like you might not have the Bowden tube in place. My shifting gets imprecise like that when the cable starts to stretch or when (over a decade ago) I first got the car and the Bowden tube was missing.


I had a look. I found the Bowden tube (as well as a black widow nest, ugh), so that's not the issue. I gave the adjuster another full twist to see what difference that made. Unfortunately, it's raining now, and the car's not ready for rain.

I shifted through all of the gears with the engine off. Lots of noise coming from the shifter, and some resistance in the process of shifting. I don't know if that means anything.
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modok
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

If it's not grinding going into reverse, then the clutch is letting go just fine.
What about the oil in the transmission?
is it full of sludge? air? or oil of some known qualities?
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Casting Timmy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

If you make a lot of noise shifting through the gears with the engine off, I'd start there.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Easiest check is the coupler that connects the shift rod to the transmission, located under rear seat. Then there's a shift rod bushing just behind the shifter in the tunnel. Also shifter could be worn or defective, check ball end that connects to shift rod socket. Seen some dry, gouged up, unmaintained shifter ends.
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tthoms
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

modok wrote:
If it's not grinding going into reverse, then the clutch is letting go just fine.
What about the oil in the transmission?
is it full of sludge? air? or oil of some known qualities?


I checked the oil a few months back. It was at the right level, and the sample I took from the top looked pretty good. However, it was from the PO, so I don't know the history. I'd better change it.
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tthoms
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

rs58rag wrote:
Easiest check is the coupler that connects the shift rod to the transmission, located under rear seat. Then there's a shift rod bushing just behind the shifter in the tunnel. Also shifter could be worn or defective, check ball end that connects to shift rod socket. Seen some dry, gouged up, unmaintained shifter ends.


I'll poke around there, I've never really had a good look at these parts before. I'm hoping that if there is a problem. it will be obvious.

Thanks to all!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

I agree that the coupler sounds bad. The rubber side pieces sometimes become gummy. That causes a strange shift into and out of gears. Quick check will let you know.
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tthoms
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Okay, I went in and examined the contact points in question.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The coupler needs a cleaning, and there's some play in it when the shifter is moved. There's also a piece of safety wire towards the back, securing the back screw. I don't know how it is supposed to look, so I can't see anything wrong with it.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The shifter itself. I can't see anything wrong with that either.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The shifter plate and socket. As far as I can tell, ok from this angle.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's where I get nervous. There's a plastic ring around the rod that leads to the back. It seems to be split, and slides freely on the shaft.

That's bad, isn't it?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It slides freely on the shaft. Or the shaft slides through the bushing freely?
Makes a difference.
All of the bushings I have ever looked at are split and and have a retaining ring around the forward end of the bushing.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Wiggle the coupler back and forth, both shafts should move together, if they don't then there's a big part of the problem. Looks like the safety wire for the lock screw has broken
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tthoms
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

66brm wrote:
Wiggle the coupler back and forth, both shafts should move together, if they don't then there's a big part of the problem. Looks like the safety wire for the lock screw has broken


I'll check tomorrow.
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tthoms
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It slides freely on the shaft. Or the shaft slides through the bushing freely?
Makes a difference.
All of the bushings I have ever looked at are split and and have a retaining ring around the forward end of the bushing.


I can spin bushing around and slide it up and down the shaft with a q-tip.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Sounds like the shift bushing is no longer seated in the hole in the bracket, like you need a new shift bushing.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

New one looks like this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is a diagram to help you:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There are threads on how to replace this. It's a greasy job but that, along with replacing or refurbishing the coupler under the seat, will make it shift much better. Don't take shortcuts, or you will be doing it again shortly.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

I just replaced the factory shift bushing on my 1970 a few months ago, with photos on page 21 of my resurrection thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=400


I did this 2 decades ago on my 1971 Super, was a little easier because the shift rod on a 1971 Super can move forward enough so taking off front panels is not necessary.

Apparently German-made shift bushings are available, from advertisers like CB Performance.
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tthoms
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the tips and links. I plan on replacing the bushing, and though its not obvious they need it, the rubber parts of the coupler. Ordering the parts today.

Thanks again!
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mcmscott
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

If you replace the coupler, re-use the original cage, throw the new one in the trash and just use the new bushings.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

mcmscott wrote:
If you replace the coupler, re-use the original cage, throw the new one in the trash and just use the new bushings.


X2, all the metal parts of the kits I've seen are garbage. The rubber is what you are after; that's usually all that wears.
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