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breifenberg
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Joined: June 30, 2018
Posts: 62
Location: Ohio
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 Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:43 pm Post subject: Fuel injector wires |
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Fuel Injector Wires
Where do they plug into ? |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32627
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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breifenberg
Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2018
Posts: 62
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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| Not with the van right now and trying to get help over the phone. I will have pictures tomorrow morning. Thanks |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32627
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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breifenberg
Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2018
Posts: 62
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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DanHoug
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Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4798
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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so this is a junkyard pull engine going into your van?
the pict of the van engine bay shows the FI wires with the yellow plugs intact and waiting for your engine! you'll pull off the plugs on the engine and attached the ones on your van. save those plugs that you pull off... handy for making testing tools.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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mikemtnbike
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Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2797
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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Except for the super crusty looking fuel lines. Make sure those are all get changed in your project, I can see them bulging and degrading in the photos.
The photo of your engine bay does show FI wiring and looks like most of everything else, impossible to tell for sure.
Have fun, looks like quite the reclamation project!
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled  https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
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VicVan
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Joined: July 01, 2015
Posts: 1845
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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| djkeev wrote: |
If you are wondering about an order, there isn't one.
All four injectors receive the pulse to open at the same time.
Dave |
How does that work? Shouldn't each cylinder get fuel at their intake stroke, meaning each at a different time?
Or is the injected fuel sitting there in the chamber, waiting for the admission valve to open when the time comes?
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'90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
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mikemtnbike
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Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2797
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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Look up batch fire fuel injection, I had to do the same thing to understand it.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual
Last edited by mikemtnbike on Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DanHoug
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Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4798
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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VicVan- the fuel does indeed pool up behind the closed intake valve, waiting to be sucked in when the valve opens. but when the head is hot enough, it really is vapor and not liquid.
the change to "sequential port injection" by manufacturers timed the injector squirt to valve opening, increasing fuel efficiency and power. i believe GoWesty's new FI system is sequential now plus they've added COP.. Coil On Plug for precise high energy sparks.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Ahwahnee
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Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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| VicVan wrote: |
| ...is the injected fuel sitting there in the chamber, waiting for the admission valve to open when the time comes? |
But it doesn't have long to 'wait' -- at 3000 RPM that intake valve opens 25 times each second. |
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VicVan
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Joined: July 01, 2015
Posts: 1845
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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I see, thanks for the explanation.
This simplified sketch shows the place where the fuel would sit once injected
I also found this, I like the rhythm. We could sample it with other Vanagon sounds and do a techno song or something
Link
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'90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
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tencentlife
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Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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| Quote: |
| the change to "sequential port injection" by manufacturers timed the injector squirt to valve opening, increasing fuel efficiency and power. |
Most production sequential systems revert to batch-fire by about 3krpm anyway, there just isn't enough time to move the fuel quantity while achieving good atomisation. If you go to bigger injectors to solve the problem then idle and low-end fuel utilisation suffers, which was the reason to go sequential in the first place, because it does take time for the injector to open and close too so you can't take duty cycle below a certain percentage.These things end up at cross-purposes.
It's not vapor in the ports either, or it shouldn't be. Fuel vapor burns explosively and is highly prone to detonate, the last thing you want happening inside the cylinder. That's one of the reasons detonation incidence increases when the engine runs too hot (more of the droplets are vaporising in the hotter in-cylinder environment). It's also one of the reasons cool intake air is good at high loads (however, warm intake air improves engine efficiency at lower loads).
For complete progressive burn fuel needs to be in fine droplets. The time periods involved here are exceedingly short, in batch fire and a goodly part of a sequential fire cycle the fuel mist hangs in the air inside the port without sufficient time to even begin to fall out before the intake inrush whisks it into the cylinder. You can find high-speed photography of the process, it's quite beautiful watching how it all works when it's slowed down.
The benefits of sequential injection are mainly lower idle and low-rpm emissions and somewhat better throttle response at low end, there is no meaningful difference in actual power output or fuel efficiency between sequential and batch systems. I've never seen sequential sold on that basis anyway, but laypeople simply assume it must produce better power and efficiency. What they miss is how good older simpler systems already are and the fact that newer technologies are applied for emissions improvement as much or more than for power and driveability.
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breifenberg
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Joined: June 30, 2018
Posts: 62
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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This engine is from a Syncro(I was told). Yea I have a harness and control box. Just thinking I may have bitten off more than I can chew.
Thanks for the help! |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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breifenberg
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Location: Ohio
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17155
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:14 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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Yes you have bitten off a lot. I hope there are some large boxes of parts not pictured. Good news is if you manage to get it running, you will have a thorough understanding of the van.
When someone brings a project in boxes, it actually takes more time to do than if it were assembled. Good luck.
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breifenberg
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Posts: 62
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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| Yea I have a bunch of boxes. Trying to figure out how what I have and what I dont.don’t |
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17155
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injector wires |
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Its a lot of work if you aren't 100% sure that engine is strong and sound. You might want to consider doing a conversion on this basket case. It might end up being less money and headaches. It would blow to go through this only to find, it has a bad head gasket, or a connecting rod ready to let go. Again. good luck with this.
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