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1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH)
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:12 pm    Post subject: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

I'm about to give up on my quest to find a 1968 Ghia speedometer marked and geared for KPH. Udo Dreisoerner in Germany has been kind enough to try to find one in Europe where he is based, but thus far to no avail.

As far as I can determine, the Ghias exported from the factory to the USA, UK, Canada, South Africa, Japan (like mine), Australia and New Zealand (maybe others too) were all fitted with speedometers marked for MPH. Only Europe got KPH.

So I'm having to settle for an MPH speedo. My question relates to the number of openings for lights at the top of the speedo. According to my Ghia's 1968 owners' manual, there is only one opening at the top for the High Beam blue light. That was also the case in 1967. I've seen others with 2 or 4 openings, the latter for High Beam, Low Beam, Demister and Autostick.

Can someone confirm that my '68 should have the High Beam blue light only, please?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:52 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

Autostick came out in 1968.

To my knowledge every unit got the autostick speedomenter but the light wasn't used if not equipped with the option.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:01 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

My 70/71 has the Autostick light marker, but no bulb in place
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

kiwighia68 wrote:
I'm about to give up on my quest to find a 1968 Ghia speedometer marked and geared for KPH. Udo Dreisoerner in Germany has been kind enough to try to find one in Europe where he is based, but thus far to no avail.

As far as I can determine, the Ghias exported from the factory to the USA, UK, Canada, South Africa, Japan (like mine), Australia and New Zealand (maybe others too) were all fitted with speedometers marked for MPH. Only Europe got KPH.

So I'm having to settle for an MPH speedo. My question relates to the number of openings for lights at the top of the speedo. According to my Ghia's 1968 owners' manual, there is only one opening at the top for the High Beam blue light. That was also the case in 1967. I've seen others with 2 or 4 openings, the latter for High Beam, Low Beam, Demister and Autostick.

Can someone confirm that my '68 should have the High Beam blue light only, please?

I'm fairly certain that the speedometer with just the one (high beam) indicator light at the top was used for only the 1967 model year.
As djkeev has pointed out, the introduction of the AutoStick option in the 1968 model year brought about changes in the number of indicator lights in the speedometer.

You may want to check the printing date on your Owner's Manual to verify whether it is indeed meant for the 1968 model year.
As you can see in this photo, ...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


... the 1968 Model Year Karmann Ghia Owner's Manual (dated 12/67) found here in The Samba archives shows a speedometer with four indicator lights at the top.


The "Good News" is that you can probably sell your rare, one-year-only 1967 sppedometer for more than it will cost you to buy a 1968-1971 KPH speedometer should you ever actually find one. Smile
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Scheff
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

My '68 KG, imported to USA, has 4 light indicator openings at the top of MPH speedometer gauge...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You may want to consider a non-VDO speedo solution with KPH, such as this one at ISP West Restoration Parts...
ISP TRIP SPEEDOMETER 200KM
https://www.vwispwest.com/211018021BG.html
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

I looked at my old original 68 speedo it is exactly like Scheff's above. The 4 slots for lights on the face. I have a 67 "only" with the one light. I believe by 69 or 70 they started labeling for high beam....The lower oil pressure light morphed from green to red. So in short 67, one light only, 68 4 lights no labels, 69+ labels for lights?
Oh, and whats the question here? Crying or Very sad Kiwi, I put a call into speedoking to see about "making" a KPH speedo from a MPH.
1967
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1968
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1969+
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NOS Dated 6/76 (replacement speedo?)

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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

Okay gentlemen, you've convinced me, and thank you for responding.

One light hole for the '67 speedo (blue light High Beam) and four holes after that. I have a four-hole MPH speedo at the moment but it's malfunctioning.

If Udo - who's trying to find a KPH speedo for me in Europe - and I still have no luck by Tuesday I'm going to negotiate with Darrel for his NOS speedo. (Keep it for me, please Darrel).

The labelled four holes dial also makes sense since my Ghia has the demister rear windscreen which, as far as I know, doesn't automatically switch off, making a warning light in the speedo helpful/essential.

PS I found a KPH speedo in good condition but it's for the pre-67 Ghias. Just shows you how my luck runs.
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udo dreisoerner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

juhuuuuuuuuuuuu to all karmann ghia Lovers..

it is crazy that those speedo is an hard to find part in Germany. I would not have believed that the searching is soo difficult...

i'm looking every day for the kiwi-ghia, posted an own want-to-buy-add, but no answers... today i meet an older german men with ghia, i hope he have one for you....

regards, Udo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:29 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

So there are 6 different speedometers from 1967 to 1971?
MPH with 1 lamp above,
KMH with 1 lamp above,
MPH with 4 lamps above without symbols,
KMH with 4 lamps above without symbols,
MPH with 4 lamps above with symbols and
KMH with 4 lamps above with symbols?
Halelujah
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udo dreisoerner
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:33 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

kiwighia68 wrote:


If Udo - who's trying to find a KPH speedo for me in Europe - and I still have no luck by Tuesday I'm going to negotiate with Darrel for his NOS speedo. (Keep it for me, please Darrel).


Keep cool and give me some time. but the question is what Kind of KM/H speedo you Need? WITh Symbols or WITHOUT???

makes the searching more difficult Laughing
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

udo dreisoerner wrote:
kiwighia68 wrote:


If Udo - who's trying to find a KPH speedo for me in Europe - and I still have no luck by Tuesday I'm going to negotiate with Darrel for his NOS speedo. (Keep it for me, please Darrel).


Keep cool and give me some time. but the question is what Kind of KM/H speedo you Need? WITh Symbols or WITHOUT???

makes the searching more difficult :lol:


Hello Udo,

Four lamps please, but it doesn't matter if its with symbols or without.

Danke schőn

Chris M
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

c21darrel wrote:

NOS Dated 6/76 (replacement speedo?)

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Darrel,

Are these all spares? Are they for sale? If so... Wouldn't mind take this one off your hands. Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:05 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

Thanks to this thread, I now know why my car has an ATF indicator, I didn’t see other signs of it being converted.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

All of this info is very interesting and good to know, but at the risk of completely derailing kiwighia's thread here can somebody please offer a good explanation as to why the "10", "20", "80" and "90" MPH marks are read in the opposite direction from all of the other MPH marks inbetween?

I don't recall ever seeing that on any vintage American speedometers, ... but that doesn't mean there weren't any made like that.

Google shows me that other German cars used a similarly marked speedometer, and that some English cars did as well.
Was (Is?) that some sort of European "Standard", or is it just certain speedometer manufacturer's idea of a "more efficient" design?


Just to make this post more relevant to the OG topic, are the KPH calibrated vintage VW speedometers marked in a similar quirky fashion?

Oh, and BTW kiwighia - I think Darrel is on the right track when he brings up the possibility of having an MPH calibrated speedometer converted to a KPH calibrated one.
I've heard that speedometer shops can use different size gears inside to correct for error induced by running with a non-stock tire diameter, so it seems logical that the correct gears could be used to convert from MPH to KPH.
As far as the speedometer face markings go, we've all seen plenty of custom guage face decals that can be made to look exactly like the original vintage VW style.

Apparently there are also "ratio converter" modules that can be placed between the speedometer cable end and the back of the speedometer which will accomplish the same end as changing the internal gearing.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

Just an orientation thing for the eyes. Below "quarter to" and after "quarter after" if the numbers weren't flipped it woukd read 01, 0Z, 08 & 06

Here is my 1969 USA version, delivered new in New Jersey Speedo......

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

I've been thinking of getting the correct year speedo from a beetle and taking the face plate out of it to convert my speedo to KPH. The silver center plate would cover the gas gauge hole.

brad
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

udo dreisoerner wrote:
juhuuuuuuuuuuuu to all karmann ghia Lovers..

it is crazy that those speedo is an hard to find part in Germany. I would not have believed that the searching is soo difficult...

i'm looking every day for the kiwi-ghia, posted an own want-to-buy-add, but no answers... today i meet an older german men with ghia, i hope he have one for you....

regards, Udo
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This is great! its like you are on a mission driving over to meet with the "older gentleman with ghia" to get the goods. Smile

Kiwi, no rush, Speedoking is researching MPH to KPH conversion, what gear modifications …. He has Bus and Beetle KPH speedos but no Ghia in KPH. Just to continue to muddy the waters, here is a late ghia KPH
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Lowlight KPH
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KPH from the manual.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/69-8_kg/seite12.jpg
@xzener, yeah. Somehow I seem to keep buying stuff. If you want, PM me for details
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

xzener wrote:
c21darrel wrote:

NOS Dated 6/76 (replacement speedo?)

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Darrel,

Are these all spares? Are they for sale? If so... Wouldn't mind take this one off your hands. :wink:


No, no, no! I have first dibs on that one, if Udo's efforts come to a dead end by Tuesday!

Just as an update: I've considered all the alternatives: beetle speedo, gear adjustment gadget between the cable and the speedo and a transparency with the KPH dial.

Yesterday I found out that if I were to replace the speedo (KPH or MPH with zero on the odometer) I would have to get permission from Big Brother. Maybe all this is not worth the effort when my Ghia came out with an MPH speedo - like the one Darrel has shown.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

Is it certain that Kph speedos are geared different ? It seems to me that that just the face would be different. Obviously the odometer wheels would be geared different . 90 Kph is about same 55 Mph .The car is going the same speed, just different interpretations . Like "what wieghs more?" A pound of feathers or a pound of iron , Er, or kilos in this case .........
Any way If it is just the face , What about printing a Kph sticker like folks do with converting clocks to tachs ? The milage counter would be awkward but maybe wouldn't offend the Governor either.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: 1968 Ghia speedometer (KPH or MPH) Reply with quote

swavananda wrote:
Is it certain that Kph speedos are geared different ? It seems to me that that just the face would be different. Obviously the odometer wheels would be geared different . 90 Kph is about same 55 Mph .The car is going the same speed, just different interpretations . Like "what wieghs more?" A pound of feathers or a pound of iron , Er, or kilos in this case .........
Any way If it is just the face , What about printing a Kph sticker like folks do with converting clocks to tachs ? The milage counter would be awkward but maybe wouldn't offend the Governor either.

d'oh! Well now that you mention it, it does seem somewhat obvious that you are probably correct about the gearing being the same, ... at least for the indicated speed, anyway.

If you look at the MPH speedometer, ...

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... when the needle points straight up, the indicated speed would be roughly 50 MPH.

Now if you look at the KPH speedometer, ...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


... when that needle points straight up, the indicated speed would be roughly 80 KPH.

If you do the conversion 50 MPH equates to roughly 80.5 KPH, so it would indeed seem to be true that the internal gearing is likely the same for the indicated speed.
All kiwighia should really need is a speedometer face decal calibrated to KPH.

Since this arrangement would already not be 100% "correct", it wouldn't be too much more "incorrect" to add the word "Miles" below the odometer display on the new speedometer face decal.


I think the real difficulty here is whether or not any of this would be "acceptable" to someone that has a tendancy to prefer everything be done the "right" and "proper" way. Smile
IMO while the KPH decal may not be either "right" nor "proper", it certainly would be convenient when driving around in a country that posts all the speed limits in KPH.
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