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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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Today was all about learning how to get rid of orange peel. I think I finally have a technique that works for both me and the car.
Still a lot more to do but seeing as I haven't ordered any parts yet and this is meant to be a winter project I have all the time in the world.
I have a question about the oil light. My oil light is green, not red like any other car. Cool. It seems be a normally open switch and then pressure causes it to close. In other words if I have good pressure I will see a green light and if I have no pressure the light will extinguish. Normal or do I have the wrong switch? |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| old_man wrote: |
Today was all about learning how to get rid of orange peel. I think I finally have a technique that works for both me and the car.
Still a lot more to do but seeing as I haven't ordered any parts yet and this is meant to be a winter project I have all the time in the world.
I have a question about the oil light. My oil light is green, not red like any other car. Cool. It seems be a normally open switch and then pressure causes it to close. In other words if I have good pressure I will see a green light and if I have no pressure the light will extinguish. Normal or do I have the wrong switch? |
Nice job on the color sanding.
Actually you have the switch/light operation backwards. Turn the key to on, and the oil light should light up. As the engine turns over, it builds oil pressure to turn off the light. Once the engine is running, the light should be off.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
Nice job on the color sanding.
Actually you have the switch/light operation backwards. Turn the key to on, and the oil light should light up. As the engine turns over, it builds oil pressure to turn off the light. Once the engine is running, the light should be off. |
Thanks!
So I need a new switch. Are there any switches out there that act as both a pressure sensor and a pressure switch? |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| old_man wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
Nice job on the color sanding.
Actually you have the switch/light operation backwards. Turn the key to on, and the oil light should light up. As the engine turns over, it builds oil pressure to turn off the light. Once the engine is running, the light should be off. |
Thanks!
So I need a new switch. Are there any switches out there that act as both a pressure sensor and a pressure switch? |
yes, https://www.busdepot.com/360006
may or may not fit, you might need the funky right angle adapter I've seen used, but thats the one anyways
for the record, all old VW's are like this. Red light is for the generator green light for oil
_________________
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Last edited by Erik G on Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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Thanks for find the switch. I wonder why someone installed a backwards switch on mine. I guess it's a true fail safe.
To answer your question I have never done this before so I tried a bunch of different methods. I wasn't too worried about messing up the paint. This is after all something for me to learn on.
The first thing I tried was something called denim pads. They are suppose to remove orange peel without the need to wet/colour sand. They kind of work but require a lot and a lot of time to see any results. This was all on my DA which I had just got and never used before.
Then I went to wet sanding or colour sanding as some people call it. At first I tried to stick to just 2000 but that was taking for ever. Eventually after some playing I start with 1000 to remove the most of it and then finish off with 2000 to remove the last of it and remove the 2000's scratches. I ran into a problem here because it turns out the thickness of the paint is not equal all. There are few spots....
Next I played with removing the sanding scratches. I tried HD 3D Cut+. Rave reviews everywhere about how great it is, how it could remove up to 1200 grit with ease. It didn't, at least not for me. Eventually I settled on a 3M rubbing compound I got at the auto paint store. I also had some higher quality foam pads for my DA but again it wasn't cutting. The crappy pad I picked up at the generic store. It seemed to work much better.
I also think/leaned it's advisable to leave just a little peel on. It seems to hide slight defects in the metal work.
I still have two panels to do with the sanding/rubbing. Then I have to do the whole car with polish perhaps followed by a coat of wax. I figure it's easier to do all this now then after all the time pieces are stuck on.
TL;DR: 1000, 2000, 3M rubbing compound, polish. |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:42 am Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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I finished up the polish/waxing for now. Anyone notice something missing in this picture?
And this is the beading joining the rear fender and body. You can see the paint. This is why I think I'm not going to remove the rear fenders. It will crack like crazy.
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:46 am Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| old_man wrote: |
I finished up the polish/waxing for now. Anyone notice something missing in this picture?
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Yup, the torsion bar hole cover. It must have gotten bondoed over before the paint job.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
Yup, the torsion bar hole cover. It must have gotten bondoed over before the paint job. |
Don't forget the two holes for the rocker trim. Strange because when you think of it it probably took more effort to cover it than it would have to just leave it.
Which brings me to my next question. I know I can't remove the torsion bars without the holes but can I remove the spring plates to swap out the rubber bushings? |
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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Today's progress was to finish off the polish and waxing and then mount the roof rack. The roof rack didn't come with the car but the holes were already there for it. Go figure, they bondo over the torsion bar access hole but leave holes in the roof.
I had to fab up new rubber feet and strips because the existing strips were hard as rock and the rubber feet were gone. All in all I think it worked out. The only thing is the 4 posts have really bad pitting. Oh well....character.
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| old_man wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
Yup, the torsion bar hole cover. It must have gotten bondoed over before the paint job. |
Don't forget the two holes for the rocker trim. Strange because when you think of it it probably took more effort to cover it than it would have to just leave it.
Which brings me to my next question. I know I can't remove the torsion bars without the holes but can I remove the spring plates to swap out the rubber bushings? |
You'll probably have to unbolt the bottom of the fenders in order to get the swing arms off, so you can replace the bushings. Once you get the arms off the stop plates (unloaded), take your magnetic angle finder, and get a reading. You'll want this, as a reference point for putting it back together.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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I've had a bunch of type 3's and lowered a bunch, I've never needed to pull the torsion cap off or unbolt a fender, BUT I'm usually not working on rusty cars like Bob. If yours is clean you shouldn't have a problem getting the torsion bar separated from the spring plate
your orange peel removal learning sounds about like when I learned how to remove a 6 foot long bicycle scratch on my beautiful black yukon. You don't so much remove the scratch, more like scratch up everything around it and then buff everything out, effectively hiding it...
Looks good for what it is!
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| Erik G wrote: |
I've had a bunch of type 3's and lowered a bunch, I've never needed to pull the torsion cap off or unbolt a fender, BUT I'm usually not working on rusty cars like Bob. If yours is clean you shouldn't have a problem getting the torsion bar separated from the spring plate
Looks good for what it is! |
Will I be able to take it off completely to change rubber bushings?
Today's progress. I put the rear bumper back on after polishing it. It was easy. The brackets were already on the bumper so it just all bolted on. The front was a different story. The brackets were on the car but the bumper was not. After spending a lot of time fighting to get it on I figure out what the problem was. Someone (not me) swapped left and right front bumper brackets. I took it all off, assembled it on the work bench, and then it bolted right on just like the rear.
I don't normally do the trim and cosmetic stuff until after all the mechanical are done but I just wanted the roof rack and the bumpers off my workbench. Those things take up a lot of room.
Then I moved onto this:
Its threads are gone. I could order a used one but they are going for $50 and it would cost me another $47.25 to get it and here plus possibly some duty. So I decided to fix it.
First step was to get the clam shell off. I did this by carefully grinding the edges away and the two halves came apart.
Here are are the replacement threads. It comes in the form of a nut from China.
I then cut some of the old threaded section as well as a but of the aluminium fins.
Then I grinded a bunch of the nut off to make it less wide and giver it a bit of chamfer.
Test fit
Now onto welding. Did I mention that I have no idea what I am doing because I really don't know how to weld? But a little bit of youtube and some books gives me just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
I then had to widen the hold on the clamshell this is the flaw in the entire process. It will allow air to escape. It's acceptable for my purpose. Here it is back together.
Some of the welds
It fits.
I did this for several reasons
1) I am cheap
2) It seemed like a challenge
3) It allowed me to practice my welding
4) I keep reading about how I should never throw away any type 3 parts because they aren't making them anymore. Well, someone who has any sort of fab skills should be able to do a much better job than I. BTW that nut was about $5 shipped on ebay.
5) I had nothing to lose. If I completely cocked it up I would be back to square one...having to buy a replacement.
Peace! |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| Erik G wrote: |
| for the record, all old VW's are like this. Red light is for the generator green light for oil |
Starting in about 1968, the oil light was changed to a red light. |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| old_man wrote: |
| Erik G wrote: |
I've had a bunch of type 3's and lowered a bunch, I've never needed to pull the torsion cap off or unbolt a fender, BUT I'm usually not working on rusty cars like Bob. If yours is clean you shouldn't have a problem getting the torsion bar separated from the spring plate
Looks good for what it is! |
Will I be able to take it off completely to change rubber bushings?
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Maybe if you are lucky and/or patient. It is physically possible and I have done so (well, 67 notchback so bob please correct me if square bars are longer). Nice California clean and somewhat maintained cars.
There is physically enough room if you can get the torsion bar loose from the spring plate. This person has not in this pic I found
this should give you an idea of what you are up against if yours are a rusty mess
not much room to bang a hammer to separate the two. you might have a cover on it too, not sure if thats a differance by year.
also now you can see why bob mentioned the angle finder, I just use a scribe. I think you said you had P-Cars? Same as a 911
not my pics either
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13281
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Erik G wrote: |
| for the record, all old VW's are like this. Red light is for the generator green light for oil |
Starting in about 1968, the oil light was changed to a red light. |
really? Interesting, I've only had older ones now that I think about it. Never an IRS vw for sure. Still learnin'
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old_man
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2018
Posts: 1382
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| Erik G wrote: |
also now you can see why bob mentioned the angle finder, I just use a scribe. I think you said you had P-Cars? Same as a 911
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Yup, it looks like the exact same set up as my 911. That was last winter's project. This should be fun..... |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| Erik G wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| Erik G wrote: |
| for the record, all old VW's are like this. Red light is for the generator green light for oil |
Starting in about 1968, the oil light was changed to a red light. |
really? Interesting, I've only had older ones now that I think about it. Never an IRS vw for sure. Still learnin' |
Yeah, same for late Bugs, though I'm not sure about the year. I guess they figured too many American idiots think "green means go" and would ignore the oil light? To me it's confusing since I would have look closely to tell the difference... and on a Type 3 I really am in no hurry to stop for a red/gen light, but man, I'll hit the ignition off and hit the clutch ASAP for a green/oil light! |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:43 am Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| old_man wrote: |
| Erik G wrote: |
I've had a bunch of type 3's and lowered a bunch, I've never needed to pull the torsion cap off or unbolt a fender, BUT I'm usually not working on rusty cars like Bob. If yours is clean you shouldn't have a problem getting the torsion bar separated from the spring plate
Looks good for what it is! |
Will I be able to take it off completely to change rubber bushings?
Today's progress. I put the rear bumper back on after polishing it. It was easy. The brackets were already on the bumper so it just all bolted on. The front was a different story. The brackets were on the car but the bumper was not. After spending a lot of time fighting to get it on I figure out what the problem was. Someone (not me) swapped left and right front bumper brackets. I took it all off, assembled it on the work bench, and then it bolted right on just like the rear.
I don't normally do the trim and cosmetic stuff until after all the mechanical are done but I just wanted the roof rack and the bumpers off my workbench. Those things take up a lot of room.
Then I moved onto this:
Its threads are gone. I could order a used one but they are going for $50 and it would cost me another $47.25 to get it and here plus possibly some duty. So I decided to fix it.
First step was to get the clam shell off. I did this by carefully grinding the edges away and the two halves came apart.
Here are are the replacement threads. It comes in the form of a nut from China.
I then cut some of the old threaded section as well as a but of the aluminium fins.
Then I grinded a bunch of the nut off to make it less wide and giver it a bit of chamfer.
Test fit
Now onto welding. Did I mention that I have no idea what I am doing because I really don't know how to weld? But a little bit of youtube and some books gives me just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
I then had to widen the hold on the clamshell this is the flaw in the entire process. It will allow air to escape. It's acceptable for my purpose. Here it is back together.
Some of the welds
It fits.
I did this for several reasons
1) I am cheap
2) It seemed like a challenge
3) It allowed me to practice my welding
4) I keep reading about how I should never throw away any type 3 parts because they aren't making them anymore. Well, someone who has any sort of fab skills should be able to do a much better job than I. BTW that nut was about $5 shipped on ebay.
5) I had nothing to lose. If I completely cocked it up I would be back to square one...having to buy a replacement.
Peace! |
Very nice, and a great way to think outside of the box. No, those aren't being reproduced, so it's either fix what you have, or get a good used one. For a little money and some time, that's a great solution.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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| Back to top |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:52 am Post subject: Re: My 67 Squareback |
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| Erik G wrote: |
| old_man wrote: |
| Erik G wrote: |
I've had a bunch of type 3's and lowered a bunch, I've never needed to pull the torsion cap off or unbolt a fender, BUT I'm usually not working on rusty cars like Bob. If yours is clean you shouldn't have a problem getting the torsion bar separated from the spring plate
Looks good for what it is! |
Will I be able to take it off completely to change rubber bushings?
|
Maybe if you are lucky and/or patient. It is physically possible and I have done so (well, 67 notchback so bob please correct me if square bars are longer). Nice California clean and somewhat maintained cars.
There is physically enough room if you can get the torsion bar loose from the spring plate. This person has not in this pic I found
this should give you an idea of what you are up against if yours are a rusty mess
not much room to bang a hammer to separate the two. you might have a cover on it too, not sure if thats a differance by year.
also now you can see why bob mentioned the angle finder, I just use a scribe. I think you said you had P-Cars? Same as a 911
not my pics either
|
Erik, I believe Squarebacks got longer bars, so it might still come out without unbolting the bottom of the fender. I normally do it because I need more room to play with. I think I've only removed 1 cap, and on it I snapped the screw due to rust.
On my IRS Canadian Notch (71), I had to take the screws out of the bottom of the fenders in order to adjust the ride height on it. On that car, the bar was suck firmly in the outer cap. I ended up doing an inner and outer bar move in order to get me back to stock, before I could reset it.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
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