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obnoxiousblue
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Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2939
Location: East Northport, NY
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 Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:59 pm Post subject: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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In a striking moment of clarity, I thought it best to have a single thread to look back on as I work on my 64 Beetle. I had a similar thread for my bus.
With great thanks due to Mannys66, and a few folks in this forum I got all three trans mounts replaced this weekend. I removed the engine last week, and today Mannys66 came over to show me how to disconnect the axles from the swig arms, so we could slide the trans rearward. We replaced the mounts, and got everything buttoned back up.
I reconnected everything and it started right up (after I replaced the ground cable from the starter to the battery. Doh!
So now my next projects.
I'll do a complete tune on it. Points, plugs, wires, oil, and grease all the joints.
I did one of the fuel lines today, but am waiting for better quality fuel hose to arrive this Wednesday. I'll relocate and replace the filter at the same time as well as install clamps and wire them in at the pump and carb.
I bought the Wolfsburg West 6 V directional relay. My original has a very irregular flash. I'll clean the contacts and replace it. I'll have to do the same with the horn which is weak beyond words.
My shocks are absolutely shot. I can move them with ease - so they're basically doing nothing. I'll read up on oil vs gas filled. If anyone has insight or recommendations on a good quality replacement I would love to hear it!
Lastly, the car starts right up. But I hear the starter motor seeming to hang and still spin for a second after the engine has started. It has that electronic "whirr" sound. What should I be looking at?
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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mukluk
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Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7023
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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The best shocks for a stock Beetle, in my opinion, are the OEM Sachs/Boge hydraulic shocks which can still be purchased new from various suppliers. I find gas charged shocks tend to be too stiff for as light as these cars are.
For your starter I would suspect either the bushing in the trans needs lubed or replaced, or the starter bendix is sticking which would require the starter to be cleaned and lubed, rebuilt, or replaced.
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1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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obnoxiousblue
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Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2939
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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Thanks!
I can lube the bushing if I pull the starter out right? What kind of lube should I use?
Is this the right bushing?
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111301155
I recall hearing there is a specific tool to remove it? Where do I pick that up?
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7023
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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Yep, you can lube the starter bushing after pulling the starter out using multipurpose lithium grease.
The bushing you linked to is likely correct provided you have a 6v starter in a 6v transaxle. Take a look at the different bushings available about halfway down this thread for more info: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=704569
Removing the old bushing can be done with a dedicated bushing puller, or you can use an appropriate size bolt or thread tap screwed into the bushing.
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1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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obnoxiousblue
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Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2939
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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Awesome. Thanks. I read that thread you linked to, and totally understand the differences in the bushings. I’ll order a new one just to have so it’s ready to go when I drop the starter to apply some lube.
Also, saw WW has the SAGE/BOGE shocks for like $25 each. Seems like a reasonable price so I’ll jump on those too.
I feel silly, this starter suddenly has me worried. 
Replacing these mounts has pulled me back down the rabbit hole!
I might even add in some safety belts while at it since I currently don’t have any.
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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obnoxiousblue
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Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2939
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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Looking at shocks, I see Wolfsburg West has both front and rears. But the front's are black while the rears are red. The site seems to imply that this was as new, but is that correct? Why would VW have used two different colors?
"SHOCK ABSORBER, front, Oct'52-1965 Bug, made to original specifications for a genuine VW riding experience, correct black color as original, made by Wolfsburg West, each"
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111413031G
"SHOCK ABSORBER, fits rear for Oct'52-1968 Bug, and fits front for Mar'55-67 Bus, made to original specifications for a genuine VW riding experience, correct brown/red color as original, made by Wolfsburg West, each"
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111513031G
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7023
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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Shock colour varied over the years but would have been the same for all four corners. The ones you have linked aren't Sachs/Boge shocks, they're aftermarket reproductions.
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1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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obnoxiousblue
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Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2939
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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Right, WW didn't have Sachs Boge, I saw these and figured I would ask before buying. It just didn't seem right.
I'll have to find another vendor.
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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Ceckert64
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Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1955
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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I would think it's so that they would be color coded so you could tell the rear from the front. I also have/ had a 1964 Herbie that I'm restoring, I used the same shocks, they are pretty good.
Here's the link if your interested |
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obnoxiousblue
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Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2939
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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| mukluk wrote: |
| Shock colour varied over the years but would have been the same for all four corners. The ones you have linked aren't Sachs/Boge shocks, they're aftermarket reproductions. |
I've checked the major VW retailers I know and no Sachs Boge shocks. I did find them on VW Heritage but I assume there has to be a seller in the USA. Any ideas on where I could buy a set?
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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mukluk
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obnoxiousblue
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Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2939
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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The car got rear-ended two weeks ago. Thankfully the tub is OK. The rear bumper is bent, along with the over riders, and the mounting bars. The engine lid pushed into the generator, which is now locked up.
Insurance was out to see the car, and it was decided that because of the fender needing replacement along with the decklid that they can't paint blend and will be painting the whole car.
It is at a shop and I dismantled most of the exterior already. 4 fenders are off, glass is out (except the door windows which I'll get to) and I removed the lights, trim, etc.
I'll be asking for help and photos on how to do some stuff along the way but for now can anyone help me by telling me how to get the interior door handle and window crank off? LOL
Photos of the car to follow.
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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bluebus86
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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If you have an original flasher relay, save it for repair, often they can reopened, and fixed unless totally dead. dirty contacts often are the problem. Original is cool!
Bug On!
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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bluebus86
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Joined: September 02, 2010
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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| obnoxiousblue wrote: |
The car got rear-ended two weeks ago. Thankfully the tub is OK. The rear bumper is bent, along with the over riders, and the mounting bars. The engine lid pushed into the generator, which is now locked up.
Insurance was out to see the car, and it was decided that because of the fender needing replacement along with the decklid that they can't paint blend and will be painting the whole car.
It is at a shop and I dismantled most of the exterior already. 4 fenders are off, glass is out (except the door windows which I'll get to) and I removed the lights, trim, etc.
I'll be asking for help and photos on how to do some stuff along the way but for now can anyone help me by telling me how to get the interior door handle and window crank off? LOL
Photos of the car to follow. |
Yikes!,, Sorry to hear this. The handle bezels can be pushed towards the door panel, there is a big coil spring under the panel. once the bezel is pushed out of the way, the hidden end of the handle shaft is exposed, you should be able to see a roll pin thru the end of the handle that secures handle to the shaft. Tap the roll pin out with a small punch and hammer I use a small nail often as the punch,grind the tip off.
Later Bugs mount handles much differently than early Bugs. Late Bugs with the plastic covered handle arms have a screw hidden under the arms plastic cover. this screw goes into the threaded END of the shaft. So on later Bugs you pry up the plastic cover from the arm to access the screw,
For your crash repair, INSIST ON ORIGINAL FENDERS, DECKLID AND BUMPER! You will want to source good used. As far as I know, all the currently made fenders, deck lids are JUNK. poor fit, wrong contours, and THIN sheet metal. Check the classified ads or vw restoration places for used parts, even if these used parts need some body work, they will be superior. You are getting a full paint job, probably worth 1000s, dont skimp on junk body parts. There are some decent bumpers now made so I have heard, I think they are around 800 bucks each. Repos can be dirt cheap, 100 bucks BUT these budget repro ones are junk,thin, poor fit, and chrome that begins to rust in months,Even rusting in the warehouse!, poor finshes, dull luster. At least if you skimp on the bumper, that mistake can easily be fixed with bolting on a better bumper, BUT junky fenders and deck lid will be extremely pricey to correct after the car is painted. Some folks find the best bet is original bumpers, and pay to have them stripped, polished, and rechromed like originally done with a quality copper, nickel, chrome layer.
Some aftermarket fenders are so badly shaped that they can be spotted 100 feet away. I got a 66 like that 77k miles, little ole lady owner, always garaged, she gets in fender bender, one fender replaced, entire car repainted, and that crappy fender stands out, not only by sight mind you, but by sound.A rap of the knuckles on the repro fender gives a tin can sound, do the same on one of the german original fenders, and you get a solid thunk!
Any way, good luck on the repair, Insist on original body work, offer to obtain it on your own if need be, and pay to have any repairs done it if needed, you will be MUCH HAPPER, for as long a you own you Bug with the quality parts, the aftermarker stuff is mostly that bad
also beware of the cheapest chinese rubber window seals, it save a little money up front, but when they leak prematurely, costly to replace, and more costly to ignore, ie rust!
some seals are formed so bad you can see them bulge out funny, dont hold the chrome trim well, cheap rubber that deteriorates fast. West Coast Metric makes excellent correct fitting rubber seals, and they use a rubber that is modern, lasts decades. I have wing window rubbers from them installed 30 years ago, still like new, soft pliable, no shrinkage. and that cars has spent much time outside.
Bottom line less aware of the less expensive replacement parts that a shop may use, some is total crap, and unless the shop is some Vintage VW restoration shop that has lots o experience in these matters of parts quality, is likely totally unaware of the issues.
They may think you are crazy to bring in a set of used german fenders that need a dent pulled, a weld made, and six layers of paint removed before fitting on your car, when they can offer you a brand new one for 80 bucks. But believe you me, you'd be crazy to accept the repro fender, even if they paid you 80 bucks to use it Just Dont Do It.
Bug On!
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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obnoxiousblue
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Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2939
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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bluebus86, thanks for the tip with the nail - I was wondering if I needed a special tool.
I am only using original parts, and that was agreed when Hagerty's independent appraiser came to see the car. I already found a really nice 63 decklid. I am going to have to replace at least one fender (front passenger) but in removing the lights I noticed that at some point someone had to re-locate ie: move forward - the fender mounted turn signal. There are two holes at the top which seems to suggest it wasn't mounted right the first time.
I also found NOS tail lights, and a nice original bumper here on TS. I am waiting for the check from Hagerty to order everything. But all the parts should be available. I agree that the new stuff (even as it was for the late buses when that was my scene) was junk.
I thought about having bumpers chromed, but I'd rather focus my effort on the body repairs now because like you said, bumpers are easy to pop off and send out in the winter when the car is put away.
I priced all my rubbers from WCM and Wolfsburg West. As far as the late bus was, they were usually the best quality we could find. I'm glad to hear it's the same with the Bugs. Gives me some confidence. I will be putting new aluminum trim on. My original stuff was dinged up and they're cheap to buy new.
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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obnoxiousblue
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Joined: February 21, 2007
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Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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Where can I get my 6V generator and voltage regulator rebuilt?
Wolfsburg West shows it on their site but they can’t get it any longer.
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111903021H
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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obnoxiousblue
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Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2939
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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So, as a follow up a few weeks back my 64 was rear-ended by a Jeep Wrangler.
I was pretty fortunate, and impressed at how well the bug actually took the hit without as much damage as I expected. The engine lid and light housing took the brunt of the hit, along with the passenger rear side of the bumper, fender, tail light. Additionally, the rear shocks broke loose of the bolts (the rubber grommets tore out) and generator locked up.
I had the car towed home, and after trying to start the car I realized the pulley wasn't moving. I popped off the belt and tried to fire up the car. It started right up and sounded like it's usual self.
I tried chasing the insurance company to work on the repairs but ultimately brought it to a shop near home who is known for working on old cars. Their business is body and they have a big following with the local hobby.
Bob over at BelAir Auto Collision in Commack, NY really took care of me.
Hagerty sent an appraiser out to see the car, and together with Bob they went over the car. Because the car was original paint, and a color-match and blend would be nearly impossible Hagerty agreed to paint the car!
Bob let me go in to dismantle the car. I removed the fenders, lights, engine lid, windows, hood and all to save on some labor and allow the most amount of money from insurance to go to painting the car.
They got the car stropped down 90% - they still need to do the front hood and quarters - but it's down to bare metal and in surprisingly solid shape. Five of the captive nuts broke free in the wheel wells and they'll get replaced and welded in.
I ordered my rebuilt generator from RickC . It should be here tomorrow.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1269040
I also picked up a new distributor since my old one was damaged and already giving me issues.
I have all new rubbers, pearl white fender bead, seals and window trim for the car. I replaced the front fenders and rear decklid with those from a 63 for that earlier look.
I know putting Herbie decals on a bug is rather cliche, and looked down upon by the VW Gods, but I am seriously contemplating puting them back on. I spent so many years with a bright green bus, and now having a plain white Beetle seems so generic. I love the reaction the car got from kids and even adults who ran up to it to take a photo.
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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obnoxiousblue
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Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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What color are the bumper to body brackets and the over rider support bars supposed to be?
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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vdubmyk
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Location: Corona, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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The brackets and support bars are L91, silver chrome. WW sells it in a spray can
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64 stock bug, 12V (converted 6v unit), 40 hp, all documents even sales contract and dealer window sticker! |
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vdubmyk
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Mike's 1964 1200 Deluxe |
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As far as window rubber goes, I had issues with quality control on a set of WW rubber. I ended up removing the rubber and getting my money back from them minus the labor costs it took to put new ones back in. I ended up with VEWIB German rubber from CIP1 and am extremely happy with the fit and finish of it.
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64 stock bug, 12V (converted 6v unit), 40 hp, all documents even sales contract and dealer window sticker! |
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