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Peters Van
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Joined: March 27, 2014
Posts: 357
Location: Goulburn NSW Australia
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: flat battery Reply with quote

looking for some help on how to stop my battery going flat...................
i have diagnosed that the problem is in the steering column.
i cant work out how the steering column is insulated from the outer cover.
the outer tube cover is rubber mounted and insulated from the body of the car.
i have checked this with an ohm meter and all is ok there.
if i pull the battery positive off and put an amp meter in series i am getting a 66mA current flow. if i pull the horn fuse it goes to zero.
test with ohm meter again from steering column to earth and i get a reading of about 20 ohms i think..



i cant tell from the diagrams how it is insulated.
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.
this is the setup i have.

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this is the bearing and spring i have.

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found this online.... is the plastic part what i am missing ???

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i cant see that plastic bit here on the diagram.
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1965 Type 3 Panel Van
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Peters Van
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Joined: March 27, 2014
Posts: 357
Location: Goulburn NSW Australia
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:39 am    Post subject: Re: flat battery Reply with quote

since ive got it all put back together the current has gone up to 86.9mA
and resistance is approx 300 ohms.

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meter in series with the battery

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between horn wire from outer of column

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resistance reading same place with battery disconnected

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resistance reading from steering column to outer tube
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Peters Van
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Joined: March 27, 2014
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Location: Goulburn NSW Australia
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:11 am    Post subject: Re: flat battery Reply with quote

may have answered my own questions here but anyway...........
trawling the web looking for how the steering column is isolated from the outer when i stumbled across a porsche 356 forum and a guy who had problems with the horn staying on after he pressed the horn bar... the thing is this only started to happen after he had replaced the steering coupler....
so he pulls it out and puts the old one in problem solved...
gets a multi meter and finds the coupler is conductive, not a full short circuit but enough resistance to keep the horn on once the horn bar is pushed....

i know it wouldnt make any difference on the models where there is a braided strap around the coupler to make the steering column full earth potential...

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anyone ever had this problem ??????? am i going mad....

am i going down the right thought path......
i will need to remove the steering coupler and see i guess......

oh yeah also found that the steering column bearing is the isolator between the outer and the steering column...... is this correct.......
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bustercat
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: flat battery Reply with quote

I too went through the testing and found the coupler to be conductive. My horn would go off cranking the steering wheel hard.Checked the horn circuit and zeroed in on the coupler. Crank on the wheel and the meter would move. Tried three different couplers(aftermarket, different makes). Some worse than others, but all conductive between holes. Looking in the holes, I could see metal; I would assume reinforcement for the rubber. I would guess that a good OEM coupler is the way to go. I gave up and used a button.
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ataraxia
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: flat battery Reply with quote

I went through something real similar - never was able to figure it out so I just disconnected the horn. Mine would honk and not shut off or not work at all.

My motivation to repair it was more to get rid of the parasitic battery drain - which, at the time, I thought was the electric fuel pump. It was causing other issues so I swapped it out and fixed both problems - although now I suspect the horn was to blame for the battery issue.

Here's what I tried:
* installing a relay - more wires, no change
* run a new wire down the column - no change
* replaced fuse - no change
* replaced the steering coupler - no change
* bypassed the original horn wire and ran a new wire from the fuse box to the horn/relay - no change

I put this on the back burner and will get around to it again in the future.


Last edited by ataraxia on Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: flat battery Reply with quote

bustercat wrote:
I too went through the testing and found the coupler to be conductive. My horn would go off cranking the steering wheel hard.Checked the horn circuit and zeroed in on the coupler. Crank on the wheel and the meter would move. Tried three different couplers(aftermarket, different makes). Some worse than others, but all conductive between holes. Looking in the holes, I could see metal; I would assume reinforcement for the rubber. I would guess that a good OEM coupler is the way to go. I gave up and used a button.


I had the same issue but it wasn't the coupler being conductive, it was an aftermarket coupler that was not made to OEM standards and flexed too much when cranking the steering wheel hard (like when car is stopped and turning the wheel to get out of a parallel parking space). Turned out that the coupler was deforming enough under the tension that it allowed the flange from the steering column to contact the flange from the steering box, completing the ground circuit and allowing the horn to sound.

Original VW couplers only please.

But sorry OP, this probably doesn't help you at all Laughing
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Peters Van
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Location: Goulburn NSW Australia
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: flat battery Reply with quote

i have been working on this for over a year..........
started off couldnt work out why battery was flat because it took a couple of weeks to go flat if i didnt drive it........
finally worked out it was the horn circuit by process of elimination.....
then the fun began vw have had 3 or 4 different horn wiring setups
i have had the horn disconnected all this time
i intend to pull the coupler out this weekend to try and prove my theory

thanks for the help and suggestions on this
i will post the results...........if i find any!!!!!
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Peters Van
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:32 am    Post subject: Re: flat battery Reply with quote

found the source of my flat battery...


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the more i tighten the bolts the worse it becomes
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Nikon-User
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: flat battery Reply with quote

The issue is similar for the beetles... there must something different with the reproduction of the coupler...

Also after replacing my steering box & coupler, battery went down very fast...

Temporary solution is to switch of the horn... second "solution"... get electricity over ignition and direct from battery....

This should work but I really need to find a "good" coupler too.
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DHanna
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: flat battery Reply with quote

Nikon-User wrote:
The issue is similar for the beetles... there must something different with the reproduction of the coupler...

Also after replacing my steering box & coupler, battery went down very fast...

Temporary solution is to switch of the horn... second "solution"... get electricity over ignition and direct from battery....

This should work but I really need to find a "good" coupler too.


This is one solution. Make new bushes from fabric reinforced phenolic resin material to replace the steel ones.


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