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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:17 pm Post subject: IRS conversion query... |
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I've got a 64 Squareback and looking to do an IRS conversion with a Kafer style braces on the subframe. I'm in the parts collection phase and have run into a few questions...
Questions:
1. Are all IRS Type 3's dual spring plate?
2. What aftermarket parts are recommended for a stock set up? I've noticed that aftermarket parts are almost all single spring plate. The car will be 'one spline' lower but mostly stock on stock wheels (for now).
3. If you've done a T2 stub axle swap - what other parts will I need?
Thanks in advance. |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7526 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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Heyman,
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.. life, y'know..?
All of the type 3s I have ever seen have been dual-spring-plate.
(That doesn't mean a whole lot, because I'm just a pup).
That said, I'm not really a fan of dual spring plates.
If you are going bigger/better/aftermarket, I'd suggest doing singles.
Some variation on the singles are the heavy duty, and the adjustable, both aftermarket Sway-Away or China copies.
Another adjustable is the 944, which I like even better than aftermarket.
Single plates don't just give more options, they are also far easier to deal with if you want to re-index to fine tune your ride height, or change bushings, or..?
doubles just suck to deal with from an assembly/disassembly standpoint.
FWIW, I have always found one whole spline to be too low for the suspension to work correctly.
One spline down (either course or fine) will put you on the stops.
My favorite right now is "up four coarse, down five fine".
Also known as "four clicks up from a fine spline down".
A click being a combination of one fine and one course...
You will no doubt end up being like me and trying a few settings out before you are happy,
where the car is as low as possible,
but the suspension still works enough that the car can be driven fast without being unsafe.
Super low on-the-stops will get real hairy if you hit a bump hard into a turn.
low low might look cool for a hoodride/lowrider feeble limper-arounder,
But if you are going to actually drive hard, you will need some suspension travel.
All of the IRS parts from beetle, type3 and Porsche 944 are all the same,
or can be adapted with minimal effort.
Bus/Thing/411/412/944 CVs are all the same bolt and spline pattern.
Thing CVs are a little thicker, but work.
The stub axles interchange between all directly.
Bus has the same bolt pattern, but different axle splines.
If you use a bus or 901 or 915 or 913 Porsche trans, you already have the right output flanges.
If you run a beetle/type3 trans, you can get "bus adaptor flanges" from a 944, Thing, or, most likely from the aftermarket.
IMHO, the best way to get everything you need,
From CVs, axles, brakes, wheels, spring plates, etc,
All in an OEM German quality and fit,
Is to find someone parting a 944 on Craigslist.
They are still plentiful,
And nobody will be competing with you for all of the rear suspension gear..
it's the last thing any normal person would want.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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Clatter wrote: |
Heyman,
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.. life, y'know..?
All of the type 3s I have ever seen have been dual-spring-plate.
(That doesn't mean a whole lot, because I'm just a pup).
That said, I'm not really a fan of dual spring plates.
If you are going bigger/better/aftermarket, I'd suggest doing singles.
Some variation on the singles are the heavy duty, and the adjustable, both aftermarket Sway-Away or China copies.
Another adjustable is the 944, which I like even better than aftermarket.
Single plates don't just give more options, they are also far easier to deal with if you want to re-index to fine tune your ride height, or change bushings, or..?
doubles just suck to deal with from an assembly/disassembly standpoint.
FWIW, I have always found one whole spline to be too low for the suspension to work correctly.
One spline down (either course or fine) will put you on the stops.
My favorite right now is "up four coarse, down five fine".
Also known as "four clicks up from a fine spline down".
A click being a combination of one fine and one course...
You will no doubt end up being like me and trying a few settings out before you are happy,
where the car is as low as possible,
but the suspension still works enough that the car can be driven fast without being unsafe.
Super low on-the-stops will get real hairy if you hit a bump hard into a turn.
low low might look cool for a hoodride/lowrider feeble limper-arounder,
But if you are going to actually drive hard, you will need some suspension travel.
All of the IRS parts from beetle, type3 and Porsche 944 are all the same,
or can be adapted with minimal effort.
Bus/Thing/411/412/944 CVs are all the same bolt and spline pattern.
Thing CVs are a little thicker, but work.
The stub axles interchange between all directly.
Bus has the same bolt pattern, but different axle splines.
If you use a bus or 901 or 915 or 913 Porsche trans, you already have the right output flanges.
If you run a beetle/type3 trans, you can get "bus adaptor flanges" from a 944, Thing, or, most likely from the aftermarket.
IMHO, the best way to get everything you need,
From CVs, axles, brakes, wheels, spring plates, etc,
All in an OEM German quality and fit,
Is to find someone parting a 944 on Craigslist.
They are still plentiful,
And nobody will be competing with you for all of the rear suspension gear..
it's the last thing any normal person would want.. |
I thought I'd read that all Type 3's are dual spring plate somewhere but couldn't remember where (or if it was a reputable source, for that matter). Almost all of the conversions I've seen are single spring plate - which is what got me to wondering why the difference. Apparently, Porsche originally used dual spring plates and then moved to single spring plates before finally going to coil overs? Not sure I've got that right but...anyway.
By 'one spline down', I meant 'a very minimal amount down' - just enough to keep it from looking like a 4x4 but not riding the bump stops when three people are in the car. The whole purpose for me is to get better handling at the back end and eliminate camber issues. My front end is one spline down so it doesn't look like the SS Minnow going out for a three hour tour.
If I stick with stock trailing arms (for simplicity's sake) - what's the best CV/axle option for a car with a Type 3 'prostreet' trans and 1904? I'm not likely to do a bunch of burnouts or drift corners. HD single spring plates and new torsions? I'd like to go the 'simple' route first then tweak it later if I decide I want to get deeper into it...I think finding the stock/near stock aftermarket parts will be easiest for the short duration I'll have the rear end apart. Pans are at the shop getting fixed up, engine rebuild will finish in a couple of weeks...trying to drive it before snow is in the forecast around here. |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22328 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:03 am Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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I believe all IRS type 3s are dual spring plate. But, beetle parts do interchange. I think Toby (aircoolednut) has adjustable spring plates on his 73 Squareback, and has had them on there for years.
I'm not sure, but I think multi69s also is running single spring plates on his Square as well.
I believe Mark (in Seattle) is using CB Performance hubs (CroMoly) on his car, due to stripping out the splines on the stock hubs, but I think he's also running a swing axle set up. I'd be more worried about the hubs, rather than the CV's. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:46 am Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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Bobnotch wrote: |
I believe all IRS type 3s are dual spring plate. But, beetle parts do interchange. I think Toby (aircoolednut) has adjustable spring plates on his 73 Squareback, and has had them on there for years.
I'm not sure, but I think multi69s also is running single spring plates on his Square as well.
I believe Mark (in Seattle) is using CB Performance hubs (CroMoly) on his car, due to stripping out the splines on the stock hubs, but I think he's also running a swing axle set up. I'd be more worried about the hubs, rather than the CV's. |
I think I'm going to run Type 2 CVs with Chromoly conversion stub axles, new axles and stock torsions/covers with HD single spring plates. This is from what I've gathered thus far...
What's the difference in length of the torsions - other than the snout length? Some are super long and others, like Critter1's car - are damn near flush with the cover.
I've got CSP rear disc brakes and converting the Swing Axle set up to IRS involves removing some parts and swapping out the spacer (which I've got) so I'm good there...getting new bushings, bolts, bearings, etc.
What else do I need to know? |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22328 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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ataraxia wrote: |
Bobnotch wrote: |
I believe all IRS type 3s are dual spring plate. But, beetle parts do interchange. I think Toby (aircoolednut) has adjustable spring plates on his 73 Squareback, and has had them on there for years.
I'm not sure, but I think multi69s also is running single spring plates on his Square as well.
I believe Mark (in Seattle) is using CB Performance hubs (CroMoly) on his car, due to stripping out the splines on the stock hubs, but I think he's also running a swing axle set up. I'd be more worried about the hubs, rather than the CV's. |
I think I'm going to run Type 2 CVs with Chromoly conversion stub axles, new axles and stock torsions/covers with HD single spring plates. This is from what I've gathered thus far...
What's the difference in length of the torsions - other than the snout length? Some are super long and others, like Critter1's car - are damn near flush with the cover.
I've got CSP rear disc brakes and converting the Swing Axle set up to IRS involves removing some parts and swapping out the spacer (which I've got) so I'm good there...getting new bushings, bolts, bearings, etc.
What else do I need to know? |
I'd check with Sway Away for torsion bar lengths and such, as they sell torsion bars. I do know there are different diameters, and spline counts. So, you'll have to match up what you have parts wise, and go from there. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7526 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:08 am Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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Make sure you don't actually get Bus CVs.
The splines on bus axles are different than Bug/Type3/411/412/944.
Bus axles are too long.
The splined area on the axles is longer where the CVs go, on axles desigend for the bigger CVs. (not bus)
You can machine the shoulder off of the stock type 1/3 axles,
or you can get the aftermarket axles that have no shoulder.
Or you can use 944.
Something to think about...
If you are already running short axles on your swing set-up for rear tire clearance issues,
you'll be less than happy with IRS, as it's wide like a long swing.
Maybe time to start thinking about a set of narrowed arms?
If you are going to bigger CVs, you'll need axles,
So why not just get short ones?
Down the rabbit hole... _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7526 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:08 am Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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FWIW,
If you aren't planning on doing burnouts,
You'll be OK with beetle CVs. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:11 am Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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Clatter wrote: |
Make sure you don't actually get Bus CVs.
The splines on bus axles are different than Bug/Type3/411/412/944.
Bus axles are too long.
The splined area on the axles is longer where the CVs go, on axles desigend for the bigger CVs. (not bus)
You can machine the shoulder off of the stock type 1/3 axles,
or you can get the aftermarket axles that have no shoulder.
Or you can use 944.
Something to think about...
If you are already running short axles on your swing set-up for rear tire clearance issues,
you'll be less than happy with IRS, as it's wide like a long swing.
Maybe time to start thinking about a set of narrowed arms?
If you are going to bigger CVs, you'll need axles,
So why not just get short ones?
Down the rabbit hole... |
Well, right now, I don't have anything...but this will 'ramp up' really quickly once I figure it all out.
The axles and CVs seem to be the 'sticking point' - I get that T2 CVs are bigger and have different splines and the T2 axles are too long. GKN makes a T2 CV with 33 splines for Type 1 axles though...or am I too concerned about breaking the CVs and I should just stick with T1/T3 stock parts?
Clatter wrote: |
FWIW,
If you aren't planning on doing burnouts,
You'll be OK with beetle CVs. |
...and what if I do? You know, maybe once in a while...seems weird to have that transmission and not play once in a while. Is there a stronger version of them somewhere? |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13235 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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944 parts are good
I laughed about one spline being too low because of the bump stop. LOL all the modifications on the car and a bump stop is a worry? LMAO just buy a shorter bump stop? _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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GjMan Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2004 Posts: 822 Location: Grand Junction, CO
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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Unless you have a lot of horsepower--and use it--I believe stock T1/3 driveline parts will be just fine. And cheaper.
Yes, all IRS type 3s came w/long torsion bars and dual spring plates, but as others have pointed out, single plates should be perfectly adequate and simpler to deal with.
I'd stick w/the long torsion bars as they will give you a better ride.
How are you planning to install the IRS trailing arm pivots? |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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GjMan wrote: |
Unless you have a lot of horsepower--and use it--I believe stock T1/3 driveline parts will be just fine. And cheaper.
Yes, all IRS type 3s came w/long torsion bars and dual spring plates, but as others have pointed out, single plates should be perfectly adequate and simpler to deal with.
I'd stick w/the long torsion bars as they will give you a better ride.
How are you planning to install the IRS trailing arm pivots? |
I am going to have approximately 125hp from my engine (I'll let you decide if that's 'a lot') with a ProStreet transmission.
No plans to do frequent burn outs and it'll likely never see a track. Stock width rear suspension for now.
The plan to install the trailing arm pivots is to weld in stock pockets. I'm also going to have some 'kafer bars' welded in place while it's out.
I can try the stock parts first and see if I break anything and upgrade from there - it looks like I'm going to be spending quite a bit on new parts initially. |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7526 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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Erik G wrote: |
944 parts are good
I laughed about one spline being too low because of the bump stop. LOL all the modifications on the car and a bump stop is a worry? LMAO just buy a shorter bump stop? |
Sure, you can always trim the stops, or re-locate them a bit,
However,
Move the stops too much,
And your inner fenders become the stop.
Especially with bigger rubber in the rear.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7526 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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Controlling wheel hop is job #1.
If you can keep the horns from wrapping up from hop,
You stand a far better chance of not breaking a CV.
So, I say do the bar and wait on the CVs.
Stock IRS rear suspension pars for beetle are common as dirt,
And should be free, or thereabouts. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22328 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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Clatter wrote: |
Controlling wheel hop is job #1.
If you can keep the horns from wrapping up from hop,
You stand a far better chance of not breaking a CV.
So, I say do the bar and wait on the CVs.
Stock IRS rear suspension pars for beetle are common as dirt,
And should be free, or thereabouts. |
Yup. IRS parts are plentiful, and out there. Things even use stock t-1 axles and CV's.
And another option is to start with a T-3 IRS unit, and weld in some frame horns to hang the trans off of. SupaNinja and some of us discussed this in another thread a few years ago, as he was wanting some info about doing the IRS conversion. He determined that using Berrien Buggies weld in frame horns were the way to go, since you keep the trailing arms in the stock location, and help keep the rear end in alignment.
What most people don't think about when using a swing subframe to start with is that it needs clearance carved into it to clear the CV joints. Critter has some photos of that in his build. Just a random thought to keep in mind. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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Today, I went out to visit a local speed shop guy who does rallycross in ACVWs with IRS rear ends and he's pretty certain that the stock Type 1 parts will be okay with my set up if I'm don't do a bunch of burn outs or try to drag race people. The kafer bars will help keep the vibration/flex minimized so it got a 'thumbs up'. If I break something it's an excuse to upgrade.
So - for now - I'm buying new German Type 1/3 CVs and boots, new HD single spring plates, new hardware and bushings, new chromoly stub axles and cleaning up used trailing arms, and stock torsion bars.
Bobnotch wrote: |
And another option is to start with a T-3 IRS unit, and weld in some frame horns to hang the trans off of. SupaNinja and some of us discussed this in another thread a few years ago, as he was wanting some info about doing the IRS conversion. He determined that using Berrien Buggies weld in frame horns were the way to go, since you keep the trailing arms in the stock location, and help keep the rear end in alignment.
What most people don't think about when using a swing subframe to start with is that it needs clearance carved into it to clear the CV joints. Critter has some photos of that in his build. Just a random thought to keep in mind. |
I've read every thread I could find before I started this one - I considered the Berrien route (now ACME Car Co.) but I'm more comfortable welding the IRS pockets on a SA subframe vs. welding in frame horns that hold up the engine and transmission. My SA subframe is nice - my IRS subframe is not.
I have jigs to weld the pockets on the SA subframe coming this way in about a week.
Torsions and axles are the next thing to find...I dug through a pile of them today but didn't find any Squareback torsions. I'll find them.
Once it's all in - I'll have to see how well my custom parking brake cables fit and if I need new brake hoses made.
Last edited by ataraxia on Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5359 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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This much I can tell you as an absolute fact: Type 1, Type 2, Type 3 and Type 4, CVs all have the same inner spline count, so you can mix and match the CVs and axles to your heart's content. I work on all different types of vehicles, so I mix and match parts to suit my needs. Here is one of my projects, that I have been playing with.
It is actually a Chinese, chain drive buggy, and I am using Type 4 CVs on Type 3 axles. However, the Type 2, & 4 CVs have a larger O.D., then the 1s & 3s, they are also thicker. I didn't do it for strength per say, but the Type 2 & 4s have a greater degree of articulation. I can get about 17" of wheel travel with the type 4s. However going with the Type 2s & 4s, opens up a whole can of worms. Because of the larger ODs, you would have to purchase new stub axles as well as the CV cups that mounts to the trans. Then because the CVs are wider, they will hit the stops on the axles, and you won't be able to install the C clip on the end.
That leaves two choices, machine the stop off like I did, or get custom axles. In my T4 powered Squareback, I figure that I am pushing in the 100HP range, and am running stock CVS (no burnouts), and I have been running them since 2011. As far as spring plates, I would definitely go doubles. VW put them on the type 3s for a reason, less side flex, when pushing in a turn. Type 1 spring plates will work. However, VW only put them on the type 1s for the first two years of the IRS (69-70), that's what I am using. _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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Multi69s wrote: |
This much I can tell you as an absolute fact: Type 1, Type 2, Type 3 and Type 4, CVs all have the same inner spline count, so you can mix and match the CVs and axles to your heart's content. I work on all different types of vehicles, so I mix and match parts to suit my needs.
However, the Type 2, & 4 CVs have a larger O.D., then the 1s & 3s, they are also thicker. I didn't do it for strength per say, but the Type 2 & 4s have a greater degree of articulation. I can get about 17" of wheel travel with the type 4s. However going with the Type 2s & 4s, opens up a whole can of worms. Because of the larger ODs, you would have to purchase new stub axles as well as the CV cups that mounts to the trans. Then because the CVs are wider, they will hit the stops on the axles, and you won't be able to install the C clip on the end.
That leaves two choices, machine the stop off like I did, or get custom axles. In my T4 powered Squareback, I figure that I am pushing in the 100HP range, and am running stock CVS (no burnouts), and I have been running them since 2011. As far as spring plates, I would definitely go doubles. VW put them on the type 3s for a reason, less side flex, when pushing in a turn. Type 1 spring plates will work. However, VW only put them on the type 1s for the first two years of the IRS (69-70), that's what I am using. |
I've spent what a therapist would say is 'an unhealthy amount of time' learning about a lot of this over the past few days. I think I've only owned two IRS cars - a 72 Squareback and a 69 Squareback - both of them were parted out within a week of being bought so I didn't really learn much about them while they were in my possession. Swing axle I know really well...but this is new territory for me and it's been interesting. All of the 'ins and outs' of the different CVs, diameters, thicknesses, why one is preferred over the other, etc. I additionally reached out and talked to local people who build and abuse IRS VWs (dudes who like doing burnouts, rallycross engine builder, etc.) and it seemed to come back to the fact that I'd most likely be totally fine with the Type 1/3 CVs. The ONE reason I liked the Type 2 CVs was for the greater travel in the axles - but this being on a car that's not slammed or doing jumps - that's not really an issue so I decided it wasn't enough of a reason to make all of the other required modifications or necessitate buying special parts like conversion stub axles to make the larger diameter T2 CVs fit...fortunately, the transmission isn't an issue because I'm waiting until the dust settles before I get it done.
I discovered that there are a lot of options out there for mixing/matching axles, spline counts, CV diameters, etc. After several conversations with people in varying platforms and experience levels, it seems that I'd have to drive like a complete asshole most of the time or take it to the track before I'd need to consider the can of worms that comes with Type 2 CVs or 944 trailing arms, etc. The costs tend to grow rather quickly as well...
One thing I wasn't prepared to do is have to be willing to dip my foot back into the EMPI parts pool...it took quite a bit of positive feedback from multiple people before I finally considered it - I bought EMPI heavy duty single spring plates (made to replace the dual plates) - with the 4 bolt pattern so they'll work with the early T1/3 4 bolt trailing arms. I also bought chromoly stub axles and chromoly axle spacers made by EMPI. Overall consensus seems to be that EMPI is trying to get their shit together, quality-wise, and I've heard from several different reputable people that certain parts are really nice quality now.
I bought German Type 1 CVs, bearings are all FAG, seals are all SKF and I was able to get stock pivot pockets (or whatever the hell the mounts on the subframe are called) for less than the cost of reproductions.
All I need now are axles and torsion bars. I should be able to find those in the next day or two. I've got a cushion of time on my hands because all of the stuff that needs to be painted is on the way...pan is not quite done yet and the engine rebuild is a couple weeks from completion.
So now - a final question:
What are some things you'd buy to improve over stock with an IRS conversion? |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5359 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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The most important thing is that you want the long torsion bars that came on the Type 3. Not only are they stronger (for the extra weight of a type 3), but the longer the torsion bar tends to not wind up as quickly as the short Type 1. So not only do you get the proper ride height without winding up the bars, but it is a much smoother ride. If memory serves me, the Type 3 had 24MM torsion bars, and the Type 1 22.5mm. In fact in my Bajas, I run Type 3 bars, They are just a little stiffer, but since they are longer, the ride is nicer (poor man trick). _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: IRS conversion query... |
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Yep - they're 23.5 mm in diameter and 676 mm long. One of the few Type 3 specific parts in the stock IRS rear end. I made sure to get the spring plates with the correct snout for the stock bars.
Here's the parts book info for the left one:
361 511 115 C Torsion bar (23.5 mm dia. x 676), rear, left
(marked with 1 white paint ring)
from Ch. No. 369 000 001
I spent some time today digging through a pile of torsion bars but they were all 22 mm diameter (Notch/Fast) so I left them there. |
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