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16CVs 
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4024
Location: Redwood City, California
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 Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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I've changed plenty of dash boards from car to car, either for a restore or just to get a better dash. Maybe one with less holes in it or a more modern version.
My current Multivan Had a dash from a donor van when I first built it, I had not paid attention to it when I installed it. I Tried to get it smogged and the tech had a fit. I tried to reason with the guy that the VIN is hard stamped into the frame rail. He started to tell me that I would have to go and to the CHP and get it all verified. I tried to explain that it was just a used dash from another van. At that point I just left and went home and got my Dremel and ground the heads of the rivets off and Re riveted the correct VIN in place. No biggee.
Years ago while doing a glass in a BMW we damaged the VIN, it was just paper/plastic, because the adhesive had been applied over it and we ripped it. We called BMW and within 7 days we had a new VIN plate and there was no charge.
None of that is VIN tampering because there is illegal motive. This is a diffeent story.
Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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matzmann
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2015
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:17 am Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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| The last answers didn‘t get the point. You all had cars with paperwork and changed the dash. The Topic Opener has a dash with paperwork and the car is changed. |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6529
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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Ummm, I think we're all onboard with that fascinating fact.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32574
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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| E1 wrote: |
| I'm not sure I ever had a car that didn't have a VIN on the dash. |
You must be a lot younger than me!! 
Pretty sure my '64 MGB, '58 Alfa Spyder, '59 Kombi, '67 Ford Pickup and '57 Chevy Pickup didn't have VIN plates on the dash. 
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'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32574
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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sambathrowaway
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2018
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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I replied to PMs. Thanks for reaching out.
I spoke with two lawyers and they say that if I cannot provide evidence that the guy I bought from actually did the fraud and/or knew about it then I probably have no case. It would be different if he were a dealer as there are consumer protection laws there.
They said that small claims is where I am most likely to get a judgement in my favor, but maximum there is 5k vs the 15k + tax, title and register fees I have already paid. Better than nothing I suppose.
So I am now trying to see if there is any way to legally title using the "body" VIN number. From what I read it looks like Vermont will not do the title loophole because the vehicle is over 25 years old and I am not a resident, strangely if the vehicle were 15-25 years old not being a resident it sounds like would be OK. They would also need a signed bill of sale with the VIN and I think I have burnt that bridge with previous owner.
The other issue hanging over me is customs and border patrol. I don't have any way of knowing if the vehicle was imported with them, and apparently if they find out that I have a vehicle in the US that was not imported they can seize it. I don't know how to figure this out without showing all of my cards to them.
Trying to keep my chin up, and I do appreciate everyone's support and help. |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6529
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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| sambathrowaway wrote: |
| So I am now trying to see if there is any way to legally title using the "body" VIN number. |
Did you not ask the lawyers this?
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17110
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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Someone made the suggestion of legally importing it. No affiliation, but this company comes up with my Vanagon search here in the classifieds. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1474553 It might be worth contacing them and seeing if this is possible.
Someone else linked to a US based company that appeared to be in the European Car importing business. Any chance the vehicle spent time in Canada when it first got here? Not sure why that is relavent, but if it did get to the US illegally, maybe it was driven in from Canada or Mexico with the mix matched title.
Good luck getting this sorted out.
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6529
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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| Jake de Villiers wrote: |
| E1 wrote: |
| I'm not sure I ever had a car that didn't have a VIN on the dash. |
You must be a lot younger than me!!
Pretty sure my '64 MGB, '58 Alfa Spyder, '59 Kombi, '67 Ford Pickup and '57 Chevy Pickup didn't have VIN plates on the dash. |
I'm 8, what's your point?  
(lost 50 years in the '70s) 
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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sambathrowaway
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2018
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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| E1 wrote: |
| sambathrowaway wrote: |
| So I am now trying to see if there is any way to legally title using the "body" VIN number. |
Did you not ask the lawyers this? |
I did, but they did not know... basically said that state patrol and DMV would be the authorities there. Maybe there is not overlap with the "kind" of attorney, both I talked to were consumer protection attorneys. |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6529
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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I suspect someone here may be willing to make an anonymous call on your behalf...
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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HBB
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2014
Posts: 156
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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| sambathrowaway wrote: |
| They said that small claims is where I am most likely to get a judgement in my favor, but maximum there is 5k vs the 15k + tax, title and register fees I have already paid. Better than nothing I suppose. |
Hopefully they also explained that if you are seeking $10,000 or less, and end up loosing, you'll be on the hook for the seller's attorney fees.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=4.84.250 |
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PDXWesty
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6243
Location: Portland OR
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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I've been mostly following this thread but have a dumb question. What makes you believe the current title isn't legal or that anyone would give you a problem in the future? Why can't you enjoy the van and send in the payment when it comes time to renew and live with it. Did you need to go through inspection to transfer title ort state? is that where it got noticed?
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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elizer
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2016
Posts: 1461
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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is this a doka or vanagon? If it is a doka what vehicle type is it titled as?
And isn't the concern about just driving on that if something were to happen insurance might dick him over? Are adjusters that sharp-eyed? |
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sambathrowaway
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2018
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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| elizer wrote: |
| And isn't the concern about just driving on that if something were to happen insurance might dick him over? Are adjusters that sharp-eyed? |
Correct, this is one issue. Insurance would not cover me. Second issue, vehicle subject to confiscation by any official who sees the VIN discrepancy. Between those two issues I am not ever going to be comfortable driving on the street. Third issue, although I did not buy this vehicle to flip or sell if I ever did decide to sell I would not be able to sell it in good conscience and just pass the problem on to someone else. Also, selling the vehicle as-is with the fraudulent title now that I know about it would be a crime.
The vehicle is definitely a 1989 Doka Tristar. It was represented to me as a 1986 Doka with a clean title, and it turns out the title and dash VIN are from a 1986 7 passenger van. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32574
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6529
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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OP, I replied to your PM.
Hope to talk soon.
Hang in There!!!
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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elizer
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2016
Posts: 1461
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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| Ok next question... If by a miracle CBP said sure keep it and just pay the duties... is it listed as a truck on the vehicle title? Will it now be subject to 25% import duty for a truck? |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9920
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Did I buy a fraudulent van? |
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That is just it. He doesn't have a title for it.
He's got a title for some other VW, not the Doka.
Mark
| elizer wrote: |
| Ok next question... If by a miracle CBP said sure keep it and just pay the duties... is it listed as a truck on the vehicle title? Will it now be subject to 25% import duty for a truck? |
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