Larger oil drain plug?

[syncrodoka]

Why are you even attempting to reuse that particular drain plug? Get a new insert and plug and hope to baby jesus that you can ever fix this.

[tencentlife]

The pics aren't sharp enough to tell, but it does appear to be a Timesert or other similar shouldered insert. Definitely not a Helicoil.

The most common problem with shouldered inserts for drain plugs that causes the insert to back out like this comes from incorrect hole preparation before installation. The tool that cuts the recess for the shoulder rim has to be run until the tool stop touches the surrounding surface, that ensures the top of the rim will below the surrounding surface after the insert is installed. That way the drain plug and sealing washer seat and compress against the surrounding surface. If not cut deep enough, you get what you see here, the washer is compressed against the insert itself. This causes the drain plug to grip the insert, the insert acts like a jam nut on the plug, and that grip exceeds the grip of the insert within the hole, even with the added grip of a threadlocking compound. So the insert coming out again was pretty predictable here, because that's what almost always happens. I've been using Timeserts for almost 40 years and I've seen this exact thing many times when inexperienced installers don't follow the directions.

The second most common mistake when repairing the wbx sump and others is using an insert that's too long, so that the deformable threads don't engage the inside of the prepared hole, instead they stick up past the inside of the sump and expand against nothing. Now the insert isn't gripping anything at all, it's only staying in the hole due to the drag of the simple threads. Plugs will often pull out the insert in this case, and if the shoulder recess was also not deep enough the insert will come out every time.

The solution is to get the installation kit and a fresh insert, since the internal threads on that one have already been deformed, and of of the right length, which in Timesert is the 9.4mm one. Run the shoulder step tool in the hole again to be sure it cut to the right depth, and install the new insert. When machined and installed properly, threadlocker isn't needed, but I generally used it on drain plug inserts both for extra assurance and to seal the outer threads.

John at aircooled.net rents the Timesert drain plug hole kit. The OP should mic the outer thread diameter and check the pitch, if it's M16 x 1.5 then the M14 x 1.5 drain plug Timesert will fit the hole and you can get this fixed right.
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[Love My Westy]

I'm just curious. How many, or what percentage of Vans have had their drain plugs stripped out and needed to be repaired with a timesert or helicoil? I know my Van is still a virgin. Maybe we could do a poll.

[YosemiteBound]

Crap. This is starting to sound above my ability... once we talk about machining etc.

I would love to buy a new insert and loctite it in - and a new drain plug - I just didn't know what insert would fit. Or if this insert was custom fit etc. But as my crankcase is bone dry now. I think I'll try and buy timesert and a new drain plug and see if I can loctite the new timesert in and let it cure etc. Then try the new drain plug.

I don't believe I can get the current plug out of the insert. I wouldn't know how? Hold it with pliers and try and unscrew at the same time? It seems bonded... and I'm unsure it would work. But I can try.

Worst case it stays how it is. Which is a few drips after driving - when warm. Which isn't so bad. But then I'm just constantly reusing the same crush washer too - which has been on there since I bought the van.

Blah.

Thanks again everyone.
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1985 Westy Round Headlights "Liam"

[Wildthings]

[YosemiteBound]

[old_man]

Out of curiosity what specific loctite did you use? What number? Is it the loctite brand or a different kind.

Things can be deceiving

I think the last time I did something like this I also used a torch to burn off any oil that might be in/on the metal as well.

[YosemiteBound]

Sweet Jesus in Heaven

_________________
1985 Westy Round Headlights "Liam"

[YosemiteBound]

Don't really feel like waiting for a copper drain plug washer from VC - has anyone just tried one of these kits and had them work?

https://www.autozone.com/external-engine/engine-oi...61657_5225
_________________
1985 Westy Round Headlights "Liam"

[Steve M.]

[Steve M.]

[Vanagon Nut]

For the next person....

It occurred to me that residual oil in the sump could work its way into the cleaned drain hole threads while one is prepping the insert with Red Loctite or whatever. If thats a concern, park bus overnight with the rear end up so oil moves to one end of sump then clean hole threads, etc. ?

If one installs the drain plug with a relatively low torque value, apply a non hardening sealant to drain plug threads? I've heard that the yellow sealant included in a WBX rebuild gasket set could be used for this. I'm sure Permatex or whoever makes something for this.

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[YosemiteBound]

Thanks everyone. Psyched to have a normal drain plug again.

Don't have a FLAPS here in LA. Just wondering if anyone has used a regular - non copper - washer... nylon or metal or whatever. From auto zone and been leak free? If not, I can just wait for VC.
_________________
1985 Westy Round Headlights "Liam"

[Vanagon Nut]

Oops. I originally thought you'd succeeded but wasn't sure. I'll edit my post but it seems to me some of it might help the next person. Way to go!

I've successfully re used copper washers by heating them red with a propane torch. Doing so anneals (softens) the copper.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Ahwahnee]

[YosemiteBound]

[Wildthings]

Does your insert stand proud of the case at all? Tencentlife mentions that you you don't want the plug to tighten against the end of the insert but against the case instead.

[YosemiteBound]

Wildthings it doesn’t. Slid some cardboard under the drain plug last night - zero drops this morning. Sweet fix. Thanks everyone!
_________________
1985 Westy Round Headlights "Liam"

[Wildthings]

[tencentlife]

Looking closer at his first pics and using the plug width (14mm) for scale, it does look like the insert is the 12+mm long one, which will often come out because it's not gripping the hole. That and/or the shoulder not being sunk are usually the reasons the inserts come out with the plug.

Nylon or plastic sealing washers are highly preferred, apart from the tender mercies of ham-handed corner oil change guys the coppers are responsible for a lot of stripped holes because they often leak, so the plug gets overtightened to stop the drips. Softer plastic washers seal reliably with very little torque, and also can be used several times over.
_________________
Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.