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Waldi Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014 Posts: 1752 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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E1 wrote: |
Are you saying you don't like KO2s, Waldi?
I ask as ours are absolutely fabulous. |
I have no idea about KOs.
They could be golden in this size and i would not use them.
Mine are Continatal Cross Contact AT |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6583 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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Thanks, I guess it depends on whether one goes remote, then.
Mine are great on the highway, too. The only Contis I ever used were on a racing kart -- and they sucked, too.
But I imagine they do make good tires for other things. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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Syncronoid Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012 Posts: 1111 Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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So, I did the rolling test just now. My 215/70R16's (27.8" Diameter & 746 Revs/MI per BFG) measured at 254" for 3 full revolutions, or 84.66667"/Rev, which is 748 Revs/MI. So, the BFG website numbers (746) seem fairly accurate.
Based on that, making the jump to their 235/70R16 (28.9" Diameter, 718 Revs/MI) results in a theoretical 3.75% reduction in RPM's. Seems somewhat benign, but I guess there's only one way to find out. _________________ '90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L |
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Pcforno Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 575 Location: Santa Fe, nm
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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Syncronoid - may I highly suggest researching the Cooper AT3 in this size. I changed from KO2s and would never go back. The tread lasts longer (silicone based), is quieter, and performs better off-road. They’re also lighter. If you do a bit of research you’ll find that expedition portal and other reviewers found them tops as well.
Cheers! |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6583 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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Cooper makes tires for racing series a couple drivers I know race in, so I'm all ears in supporting Cooper.
The Big One: D-Rated??? _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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Syncronoid Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012 Posts: 1111 Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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235/70R16 KO2's are on. Small but noticeable difference around town. I can notice being able to run it out a bit longer before shifting. Will drive to work tomorrow on freeway to get a sense of the lower RPM's at speed, then off to Bend for 12 days Friday. The real test comes on I-5 going over the Siskyous, Shasta and doing some off roading above my house. _________________ '90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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Pcforno wrote: |
Syncronoid - may I highly suggest researching the Cooper AT3 in this size. I changed from KO2s and would never go back. The tread lasts longer (silicone based), is quieter, and performs better off-road. They’re also lighter. If you do a bit of research you’ll find that expedition portal and other reviewers found them tops as well.
Cheers! |
What a coincidence.
I just bought those Cooper AT3 in 225/70/r16.. off TireRack.com
Have only driven maybe 10 miles so far.
Needs an alignment.
I think that tire is discontinued though? _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Pcforno Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 575 Location: Santa Fe, nm
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:22 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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j_dirge wrote: |
Pcforno wrote: |
Syncronoid - may I highly suggest researching the Cooper AT3 in this size. I changed from KO2s and would never go back. The tread lasts longer (silicone based), is quieter, and performs better off-road. They’re also lighter. If you do a bit of research you’ll find that expedition portal and other reviewers found them tops as well.
Cheers! |
What a coincidence.
I just bought those Cooper AT3 in 225/70/r16..
I think that tire is discontinued though? |
Nope still there
http://us.coopertire.com/tires/discoverer-a-t3-suv.aspx |
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Pcforno Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 575 Location: Santa Fe, nm
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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Syncronoid wrote: |
235/70R16 KO2's are on. Small but noticeable difference around town. I can notice being able to run it out a bit longer before shifting. Will drive to work tomorrow on freeway to get a sense of the lower RPM's at speed, then off to Bend for 12 days Friday. The real test comes on I-5 going over the Siskyous, Shasta and doing some off roading above my house. |
You should monitor you MPG so IDDoug can tell you how you are wrong when it’s higher at cruising speed |
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Waldi Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014 Posts: 1752 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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Syncronoid wrote: |
235/70R16 KO2's are on. Small but noticeable difference around town. I can notice being able to run it out a bit longer before shifting. Will drive to work tomorrow on freeway to get a sense of the lower RPM's at speed, then off to Bend for 12 days Friday. The real test comes on I-5 going over the Siskyous, Shasta and doing some off roading above my house. |
Lol, you are not able, but you need. |
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Waldi Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014 Posts: 1752 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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Pcforno wrote: |
Syncronoid wrote: |
235/70R16 KO2's are on. Small but noticeable difference around town. I can notice being able to run it out a bit longer before shifting. Will drive to work tomorrow on freeway to get a sense of the lower RPM's at speed, then off to Bend for 12 days Friday. The real test comes on I-5 going over the Siskyous, Shasta and doing some off roading above my house. |
You should monitor you MPG so IDDoug can tell you how you are wrong when it’s higher at cruising speed |
Sure, only way to do so is monitor it with back wind or downhills lol |
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Syncronoid Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012 Posts: 1111 Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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Who here was looking to perhaps acquire my barely-used 215/70R16 BFG KO2's??? Please message me. Thx. _________________ '90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L |
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Pcforno Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 575 Location: Santa Fe, nm
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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Or put them on Craig’s list. Mine sold the same day |
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TheMonk Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 85 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:15 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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levi wrote: |
All this bantering about and nobody brought up the most fuel efficient rpm to be driving at?
Anyone want to guess what that is?
If a change in tire diameter brought a driver into that perfect point, where otherwise he was way off, I could see it helping if other factors were not also introduced that negated that effect. |
My 2.0 a/c fi has a sweet-spot of 3200 rpm, that's making around the 97kph (61mph) gps speed. 215/75x14 lt on the rear. That's on the flat, at sea level, achieving around the 12litres per 100klm or 19(US)mpg. 98 octane fuel in a campervan with 2 onboard. I tend to cruise mostly at around that speed on the highways. |
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levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:20 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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The rpm where torque and h.p. meet, that should be it. _________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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There is nothing special about the rpm where hp and torque "meet". Power = Torque X Distance (rpms). Where the two cross on the graph is just a function of the units used. With horsepower and foot-pounds used, the graphs always meet at 5252 rpms.
Link
The most efficient rpm to drive at (highest BSFC) is typically max torque. The rpm where you have the most power is, yup you guessed it, max horsepower.
Link
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6583 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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Air density per water grains vs. power, air density via humidity, altitude, and drag, also play into finding the sweet spot of mpg.
What I do know as fact over theory is what my per-every-tank mpg math tells me, that when traveling the same overall speeds, adjusting for speedo error, we got better mileage with taller tires. I suspect the biggest factors in our case were changed gearing (via taller tires) bringing less revs.
We also changed the R&P to accelerate better and changed 4th to about 50 less revs, both likely inconsequential in us being on the open road more often than in city traffic. I believe aero to not be a significant factor, as in I drive at matched speeds to the 14s, and with such an under-powered car it is extremely likely VW weighed mpg vs. selling a rig with the feel of an even-more underpowered engine. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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vik Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2005 Posts: 204 Location: back in Czech
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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Any results so far?
Just wondering if the 225(235)/70 R16 tires on 7x16 ET30 rim will fit stock Syncro without rubbing. _________________ T3 Syncro camper in progress |
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Syncronoid Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2012 Posts: 1111 Location: Stanford, CA and Bend, OR
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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I have the 235/70R16's on 16" Mefro steelies with 2" lift and FoxShox. Very slight rubbing on higher speed entry maneuvers, but nothing that would cause any noticeable impact or damage to the wheel wells/arches.
vik wrote: |
Any results so far?
Just wondering if the 225(235)/70 R16 tires on 7x16 ET30 rim will fit stock Syncro without rubbing. |
_________________ '90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L |
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6247 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Bigger tires, changing gearing. |
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Syncronoid wrote: |
Who here was looking to perhaps acquire my barely-used 215/70R16 BFG KO2's??? Please message me. Thx. |
Why the decision to change tires? _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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