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The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only!
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ivwshane
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

Can I request more type IV questions? I don't know shit about type 1's.


My random guess though...How about a stuck open oil bath flap? Or does this engine have a modified oil cooling system?
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airschooled
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

kpf wrote:
asiab3 wrote:
kpf wrote:
Check oil level. How high does the oil cover the dipstick?


The oil is about a centimeter over the full line when I check it after filling the gas tank.

That makes sense because 3 qt is about half a qt too much. I don’t know, however, whether being overfilled can cause a mechanical noise like you described. Since the level is wrong, you might try draining the level down to the correct amount to see if that helps.


Ok I let a little out and the noise is still there. Too scared to drive it.


Robbie's note: Excellent suggestion. When diagnosing issues, always resort back to VW specifications unless the poster has given a good reason to deviate. Unfortunately, in the actual scenario this mimics, the oil level didn't have anything to do with the noise. Next! Smile
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airschooled
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

ivwshane wrote:
Can I request more type IV questions? I don't know shit about type 1's.


My random guess though...How about a stuck open oil bath flap? Or does this engine have a modified oil cooling system?


The engine does not have modified cooling systems. It had a chrome EMPI air filter, but I switched to a '71 oil bath with no change.


Robbie's note: I'm alternating, Type 1 gets odd number weeks, and they're at a 2:1 advantage right now. Cool
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Xevin Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
Xevin wrote:
When was the last valve adjustment? Shut up Tram Wink


Answer: Never done one!

Robbie's note: not relevant to the solution, though valve adjustments don't really just change spontaneously at the exact same time as an oil change…


Didn’t ask if you’ve ever done one. When was the last valve adjustment? To recap. You have had this bus for 3 weeks. You’ve referenced the Bentley and Mayor Atwell’s site. What prompted you to change the oil in the first place? But seriously dude. So you read all this stuff and thought hey I should learn how to change the oil? Why now? What else did you dick with? And why the fuck have you not checked the valves yet?

Keep your hand off the shifter until ready to change gears and stop riding the clutch. Your throw out bearing hates you when you keep the clutch in at stop lights. Twisted Evil
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

WD40 is actually a mediocre lubricant. It was intended as a water displacing fluid, which it works pretty well at. Unfortunately, it evaporates pretty quickly, which is why it makes a poor long term lube. (Now there are situations where you want the lube to evaporate, such as when you're using it as a penetrating oil to free something up, and then re-lube it with real lube later.) For garage door springs and pivots, I'd use motor oil or plain 'ol high pressure moly grease, if you can get it in there. The pressure on pivot points and spring hangers of a typical tilting style wooden garage door are pretty high, as is the wear (kinda like the clutch cable pin on a Bus...). Now if you have a rattly tin door, then LPS3 on the roller shafts works well. FYI.

(p.s. wrong carb on that engine.)

(You have an alternator for me?)
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JimmyJagged
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

I'm trying to graduate from beginner to intermediate.
I'm kinda stumped because I don't think the sound is because of changing the oil (unless you didn't replace the drain plug and you actually have no oil in the engine).
What is the loud sound like?
If it is metal on metal grinding, then I am thinking the rear CV boots don't have any grease.
If it is a spinning/whirling, then I am thinking a problem with the clutch system.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

Xevin wrote:
Didn’t ask if you’ve ever done one. When was the last valve adjustment? To recap. You have had this bus for 3 weeks. You’ve referenced the Bentley and Mayor Atwell’s site. What prompted you to change the oil in the first place? But seriously dude. So you read all this stuff and thought hey I should learn how to change the oil? Why now? What else did you dick with? And why the fuck have you not checked the valves yet?

Keep your hand off the shifter until ready to change gears and stop riding the clutch. Your throw out bearing hates you when you keep the clutch in at stop lights. Twisted Evil


I changed the oil because I didn't have record of the last change, and I've done oil changes on other cars and felt comfortable doing it on this one. I didn't feel comfortable doing a valve adjustment until today when I finally did one. Only a few were about an hour or two off, and the sound did not go away. Sad

Shifting techniques noted.

--

Telford, yes and I can swing it by this afternoon/evening after I've resurrected a '58 bus from a 20-year sleep. Also, I carry over a dozen chemicals with me, and non of them are WD-40. Wink (Also, this engine had a factory 30mm carb base flange on a dual port intake manifold with brake booster takeoff; only one I've ever seen! It drove fine, and I sold the manifold for $100 at Pomona!)


JimmyJagged wrote:
I'm trying to graduate from beginner to intermediate.
I'm kinda stumped because I don't think the sound is because of changing the oil (unless you didn't replace the drain plug and you actually have no oil in the engine).
What is the loud sound like?
If it is metal on metal grinding, then I am thinking the rear CV boots don't have any grease.
If it is a spinning/whirling, then I am thinking a problem with the clutch system.


I replaced the drain plug before filling with oil, but I'm just scared that I messed something up by not cleaning the strainer.

It doesn't exactly sound like metal on metal grinding, but it's more of a "vrooooom" whirry sound halfway between a Honda Civic Fart Can and a turbine engine.

Good luck!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

clean the paper bag out of the fan housing, that or remove the rat nest
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JimmyJagged
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

Quote:
It doesn't exactly sound like metal on metal grinding, but it's more of a "vrooooom" whirry sound halfway between a Honda Civic Fart Can and a turbine engine.


I'm thinking that your clutch is wearing out. Possibly the throwout bearing.
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1987 Vanagon Syncro. I never should have sold.
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xyzzy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
andrewtf wrote:

Mesh filter with six bolts?
Buy a Bentley and then tell us where the filter is.


Pardon me- Bentley calls it the "oil strainer" and there are six "nuts!"


Did you over tighten the oil strainer nut? It should be torqued to 9lbs MAX
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

JimmyJagged wrote:
I'm thinking that your clutch is wearing out. Possibly the throwout bearing.


Ok, walk me through the various possibilities and tests!


Robbie's note: The "clutch" is not the name of one part, but of an entire system consisting of the flywheel, pressure plate, clutch disc, release fork, clutch cable, and clutch pedal. Be specific! Razz

xyzzy wrote:
Did you over tighten the oil strainer nut? It should be torqued to 9lbs MAX


9ft-lbs max is for Type 4 strainer nuts. Type 1's have a drain bolt in the middle, good for about 12ft-lbs, and six acorn nuts on the rim, good for 5 ft-lbs max, but over-tightening those is fixable without dismantling the engine, assuming you have access to custom-machined parts. (M6xM7 stepped studs. Shocked )

So, no, in this scenario I didn't over-tighten anything, though I've stripped a few T1 strainer plates in my life.

Robbie
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ivwshane
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

Can you describe the noise better? All I can picture is the sound of a, higher than normal, revving engine. Other than the hissing sound of a vacuum leak, all other sounds I'm familiar with are mechanical in nature. Then again, I've never heard what an engine sounds like when it's starved for oil.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

I have not seen the ever so important spezial little shitbag nuts for the oil sump plate explained or even mentioned.
Fail of the first order.
Of course I’m a perpetual noobe, Evvert has told the class that I should make it coherent and to ignore me with the same keyboard. Laughing
Never mind the shitbag little copper washers, similar but different strainers. Don’t get em started on what weight of oil, or rating.
What’s the real question here, cause someone needs more traffic at their webpage?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

ivwshane wrote:
Can you describe the noise better? All I can picture is the sound of a, higher than normal, revving engine. Other than the hissing sound of a vacuum leak, all other sounds I'm familiar with are mechanical in nature. Then again, I've never heard what an engine sounds like when it's starved for oil.


Hmm. It’s more of a growl or hum than a hiss. I will do my best to take a video today.



Spezialist, as in the first post, the goal of these mock issues is to encourage new and inexperienced members to post more, learn diagnostic skills, and gain confidence in their mechanical abilities. There are fix or six dudes here who answer all the questions, and they won’t be around forever. It’s time to train the next generation.

Y’all can get on board with that or get off the pot.
Robbie
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
... yes and I can swing it by this afternoon/evening after I've resurrected a '58 bus from a 20-year sleep...

Having started with a '59 as a first bus (much simpler times), sounds like a fun project.
I should be around all afternoon. Appreciate the delivery service.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

When you performed your valve adjustment, was there fresh oil in the rocker area?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

1) To start, verify that you have solid electrical connections on your carb. (mainly the choke). Then if that is ok,
2) Then make sure you replace all the hoses you had to move while changing your oil. (breather hose to the oil bath cleaner, is the oil fill cap sitting next to the crank in the tin instead of properly installed?).
3) Now if those are both good, then remove the belt to make sure it isn't something with the fan or alternator.

Report back with results please.

Do I still count as a noob? I'm not a mechanic, and have only ever worked on my own old ACVW and then fords and newer VW's...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

anyone missing a cat?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

Quote:
Ok, walk me through the various possibilities and tests!


Robbie's note: The "clutch" is not the name of one part, but of an entire system consisting of the flywheel, pressure plate, clutch disc, release fork, clutch cable, and clutch pedal. Be specific! Razz


OK. I am familiar with those parts, but had to google how they all worked together to refresh my memory.
When you press the clutch pedal, the clutch disc should disengage from the flywheel and pressure plate. If it is not fully disengaging, it will have a metal whirling sound like your Honda & turbo.
It may not fully disengage because your clutch cable is too loose. The clutch should engage when the pedal is about 2-3 inches off of the floor. If it is engaging when the clutch pedal is high off of the floor, then it may not be engaging all the way and the clutch disc is scraping. Try tightening your clutch cable.
I hope i'm on the right path.
Then Spike states the obvious of oil fill cap and breather hose.
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1973 Pop Top Westfalia Weekender Bus. RIP. Blown engine due to 25yo ignorant of VW maintenance (me).
1986 Vanagon Transporter. RIP. totaled by drunk driver (not me!)
1987 Vanagon Syncro. I never should have sold.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: The Air-Schooled Games - 3 - newbies only! Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
anyone missing a cat?


Type 1's don't have CAT's, silly!


:p
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