Need engine help for a bay window

[bnam]

My friend had an engine rebuilt by a local mechanic who installed new moresa pistons and cylinders.

With less than 2000kms on it, the engine was producing very little power and would struggle up slopes.

A different, older, experienced, near retired, and quite crotchety mechanic removed the engine and took it apart.

He found a damaged cam timing gear

I think the part number reads 113109111B 8H. As we look for used replacements locally, what other parts can we replace this with? Will a 113 109 111A work?

This mechanic looked at the pistons and said that the skirts are too short and he refuses to use them even though they are practically new.

Is he correct? Is there a problem with this piston? Importing another new set to India is going to be real expensive. So I want to make sure.

Thanks!
Byas
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1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Danwvw]

That's weird that the pistons would be too short? What Bore and stroke?
I bet it sat with water in oil for a year perhaps longer somewhere where the soil is really alkaline! It doesn't look like it jumped cam timing though, did he check engines cam timing upon tear down, that it was right?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[bnam]

[alman72]

if he is the last guru available to do work on the bus, don't piss him off. Just buy the pistons. Is he right? it does not matter, unless you want to go back to the last guy, or do it yourself.

[bnam]

I've offered to build it for my friend instead of the last guru. I still need to know if there is a problem with short skirt pistons that I should be aware of.
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Manfred58sc]

I have used a few sets of the Mexican P@C's with no issue. They are good quality and the weight discrepancies were minimal compared to Brazilian Mahles ( as of late) . I think you are dealing with personal preference from the old,crusty mechanic..we all get there with age. There are certain brands I won't use even though others have gotten by with them.

Nasty cam gear
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Fat chick owner/operator

[Danwvw]

The left one looks so beat up that is the one I would not use. Can't you get AA Performance Hyperstatic pistons and cylinders over there?
85.5mm,
88mm Thick Wall.
Your Pistons look really small is this a 1300cc engine?

_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[bnam]

The 1300 piston is for comparison only. The pistons are the shorter wider 85.5 ones on the right. These pistons have a short skirt. Is that an issue?
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Wasted youth]

As I understand it, part of the function of the piston length/skirt is to prevent piston 'slapping' which seems like it would happen more with a really short piston like the ones he took out. Piston slapping will cause undue wear and tear to both the piston and the cylinder walls.

I would not use those short pistons.

You will need to really commit to more time and expense if you expect longevity.

[Danwvw]

Slipper Skirt Racing Pistons look even shorter. A lot of VW's running them even with stroker engines. I had to cut my piston skirts off to stroke my engine.



Slipper Skirt Piston are made short for stroker engines:

_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Wasted youth]

That's interesting. What issues conflict? If you have shortened piston skirts, is there anything that needs to be considered to compensate?

[Danwvw]

It seems to me that ring fit and oil ring width and design may be a little more important on shorter ones.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[bnam]

So, in summary -- it seems it's ok to use these pistons. The trade off could be increased wear on cylinders - which is not a problem in this case for 2 reasons
1. These are new cylinders. If we were to replace pistons and barrels, we might as well let these barrels and pistons get worn before replacing it.

2. this car will probably see an average of less than 1000mi/yr. So, even if we were to get only 10k mi out of the piston/barrel set, it would last for the next 10 years.

I'll assume rings were properly designed for these pistons as they came with them as a set. But, I'll check clearances and clock the rings correctly.
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[timvw7476]

the piston skirt length, or lack thereof, has zero to do with that cam gear.
I'd worry about piston slap when it finally arrives, many miles later.
Grab all the viable parts you still have, get a newer cam gear & assemble it.
Or find less crotchety guy to do it.

[Danwvw]

Think of it as a Science Experiment. What does the Steel Crank Gear look like?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[bnam]

The crank gear is ok. I've sourced a new cam gear with the exact same part number (VW oem not China) for about $10 shipped. Will need to have the current one taken off an replaced with the new one (properly indexed of course).
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[Danwvw]

That is a later 4 bolt cam gear so make sure you reuse the same fitting oil pump for the later models. If you buy a new aftermarket performance cam you will need a 3 bolt cam gear instead and the right oil pump for the 3 bolt cam gear. Just make sure the oil pump drive tang fits nicely into the slot and the cam should rest happily in a 1/2" case mock-up (New Cam Bearings installed for the test) and not walk around any when turned and all with the oil pump installed. The Oil pump holes need to align with the ones in the case halves and not overlap to the inside edge.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[bnam]

Bought this. Need to reinstall it with the dot facing in the same orientation. What is the the relationship between the dot and the cam lobes? Is it aligned to any one of them?
_________________
1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL

[timvw7476]

The last lobe on the camshaft should more or less 'point' at the divot on
the gear, will be off a tooth or two, lots of different grinds, but as long as
your new gear has holes in the same area, relative to the timing gear mark, you
should be able to fasten the new one & be on your way.
Last lobe as in the one furthest away from the gear, #1 & #3 exhaust.

[Danwvw]

No, the gear dot goes opposite the last lobe out on the far end like in my photo!

Here:

Couldn't find a 4 bolt cam gear picture but the gear dot relative to the cam lobe is the same on dished cams (4 Bolt's) as it is flat cams (3 bolt).
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!