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chift
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2016
Posts: 33
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 Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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Hey folks,
I removed the gaskets and found some notches where the gasket sits between the head and the heat exchanger. Any suggestions/recommendations on options?
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16959
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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Anything you do short of new heads will not have a good ending
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ivwshane
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 1920
Location: Sacramento ca
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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How would that happen in the first place? Someone taking a chisel to the copper gasket?
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chift
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2016
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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Not sure :/ but that does seem likely.
I was afraid of that aeromech... |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51121
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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Well yeah it doesn't look good, but a good cleaning wouldn't hurt to get a better look at the issue. If the edges of the valleys are raised you may be able to tease the metal back into place with the tip of a blunt drift and a hammer. Possibly even fill the remaining divot with copper wire in a similar way to how they do gold inlay on firearms.
Another option would be to mill (maybe even Dremel) the entire surface down a little, but that's not really a driveway job without some sort of special jig to guide the tool and control the depth of the cut.
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chift
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2016
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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| Thanks busdaddy. I'll clean it up in the coming days and get better pictures. Assuming I can edges the valleys in and fill in the gaps, how do I know it'll be good? |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16959
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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Those heads look to be past their life limit. To do a half ass patch is just delaying the inevitable
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16859
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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| chift wrote: |
Hey folks,
I removed the gaskets and found some notches where the gasket sits between the head and the heat exchanger. Any suggestions/recommendations on options? |
ok....if you removed the gaskets, you did the damage....it's pretty clear that the nice shiny diggers are fresh....clearly this wasn't done in the past.
what did you remove them with, an ax?
you may get lucky, but they seem pretty dam deep....try to gingerly wire wheel the surface with a dremel. that will give you a better idea of the damage....but the V shaped nature of the damage will for sure lead to burnt out gaskets as the hot gasses will have a nice easy path to eat them new gaskets alive
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chift
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2016
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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Thanks Skills/everyone.
I'll write brush clean them and see where we're at. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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Doesn't look to me like the gaskets were sealing well previously. Making sure the flanges are flat and aligned with each other would help the situation overall as would annealing the gaskets prior to installation. Since the V-marks are small, it is possible that some kind of exhaust repair goop might actually work, don't have personally experience with these products:
https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=exh...omen_e_p38 |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51121
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| Those heads look to be past their life limit. To do a half ass patch is just delaying the inevitable |
Agreed, but a patch could buy some time while new the head fund cookie jar fills up, and we all know once it's apart for heads there's always a few more things that need doing, start putting aside the $.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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I could be wrong, but it almost looks like to me that there is still a gasket in each hole.
Perhaps a previous previous owner used some kind of sealant in there which caused them to stick, and the previous owner installed new copper rings right under the old ones, and they didn't seal to each other?
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HAM Inc
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2011
Posts: 161
Location: Watkinsville,GA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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There are definitely gaskets in the last the two photos. I have no idea how to get them out without doing major damage without removing the heads.
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Hoffman Automotive Machine Inc.
www.hamheads.com |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50336
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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| A pocket screwdriver with a sharpened tip bent at the right angle works well. Thin the blade way down to about half its original thickness and then take the edge off the blade with a fine file or stone so that it doesn't tend dig into the metal. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51121
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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Sometimes you can get the tip of one of these under the edge enough to get it loose, just have to find the right size:
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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why did you pull the exhaust off to begin witfh? It is material to the answer.
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chift
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2016
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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vwwestyman/HAM Inc... it doesn't feel like there's another gasket.
SGKent: the Bus is a 78 and had all rusted out heater boxes/manifold that were beyond repair, so I've been collecting parts to convert it to a 72-74 system following ratwells page: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Exhaust.html
I think I'm going to go with BusDaddy's advice and hope they last while I save some $ for new heads. |
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HAM Inc
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2011
Posts: 161
Location: Watkinsville,GA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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| chift wrote: |
vwwestyman/HAM Inc... it doesn't feel like there's another gasket.
SGKent: the Bus is a 78 and had all rusted out heater boxes/manifold that were beyond repair, so I've been collecting parts to convert it to a 72-74 system following ratwells page: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Exhaust.html
I think I'm going to go with BusDaddy's advice and hope they last while I save some $ for new heads. |
It probably doesn't feel like a gasket, given the way it's crusted into the head, but the the copper color gives it away.
It's probably going to be tough to get that out without digging underneath it. Seen a blue-million just like it.
_________________
Len Hoffman
Hoffman Automotive Machine Inc.
www.hamheads.com |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 3838
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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Your first pic:
That looks like a gasket. Unless the gasket seat was machined with two steps in it: look at the OUTBOARD edge of the groove from about the 4 o'clock position to the 10 o'clock position, that appears to be a step-down, revealing the actual seat below; Then, at the INBOARD edge, at about the 11 o'clock position, you can see what appears to be the inner edge of the gasket seat. Those reveals are evident because the gaskets are an imperfect fit in the seat, and there's always some shift due to inherent slop. I'm with Len...heck, they're probably all gaskets.
(Edited for clarity.)
Last edited by Busstom on Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hoody
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1948
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: Notches in Head where the Heat exchanges sit.. What to do? |
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| I bet someone put red loctite under them. As Len suggested you should pull the heads. Drop the engine and do it correctly the first time. If you mangle the heads trying to pry them out you are going to have to pull it anyway. And the Bus will be sitting while you save up for a set of heads. |
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