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bally Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 1182 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:20 pm Post subject: Oil pump gear orientation |
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I've taken my oil pump out of the 1776 in my bus to ascertain what the cam is (4061) and when reassembling I noticed there is a diamond stamped on one tooth of each gear as in this photo:
My question is, how should these gears go back together? It it was two marks on one and one on the other it would be obvious but this is just one on each gear so how should they go together?
Many thanks, Dave |
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Greg Ward Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2018 Posts: 52 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:27 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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I don't think either side matters, but I've always been aware that the diamonds should probably be together.
So for the last 30yrs, I've always had the bottom diamond gear on the right side of the top one.
Never had a drama, for what that's worth...
Cheers,
Greg |
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bally Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 1182 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:30 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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Thanks Greg. That's the orientation I now have them in. I'll torque the cover back on! Cheers. Dave |
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Bad bug Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 1127 Location: Jamaica
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:16 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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bally wrote: |
I've taken my oil pump out of the 1776 in my bus to ascertain what the cam is (4061) and when reassembling I noticed there is a diamond stamped on one tooth of each gear as in this photo:
My question is, how should these gears go back together? It it was two marks on one and one on the other it would be obvious but this is just one on each gear so how should they go together?
Many thanks, Dave |
Question is the pump a gene berg unit. I have a gene berg 30mm pump with these makings and i was wondering the same thing. |
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bally Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 1182 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:27 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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I don't recall what make it is I'm afraid. I did it notice any other Id whilst working on it today. Unfortunately the bottom two studs seem to be pulling out so I need to rectify that too now... |
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Bad bug Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 1127 Location: Jamaica
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:14 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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Ok. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20377 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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I don't think it really matters...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21510 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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Well.....you could just measure gear backlash about three times in three positions....there are only nine teeth on each gear. See if there are any differences. Also measure gear and shaft length and diameter.
But....in other types of pumps and in all kinds of engine parts in many kinds of vehicles....a mark on a gear....from what I have seen from other manufacturers.... like that is usually to show a different length or diameter tolerance. It makes it simpler for an employee in a plant assembly pumps to instantly select proper gear length to keep end play or shaft length in tolerance to fit the machine tolerance variations there are going to be in the pump body. It makes it to where you do not have to mix and match and assemble and reassemble to get gear end play correct. Ray |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31361 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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Wow, I don't know if I've ever noticed any such gear markings before.
Anyway, in the early 1990s, I needed a new 26mm gear with shaft for my Claude's Buggies Maxi2 pump/filter in my 1835cc engine (as I was to use in a dished-cam gear engine); CB was back-ordered on those Maxi2 at the time, I bought a 26mm oil pump locally and used either the 26mm gear with shaft from it, or both gears, in the Maxi2, and it's been that way for 25 years now... _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9753 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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I have three Schadek 26mm oil pumps here. On one of them the "diamond" stamp in on the bottom side of the drive shaft gear.
That being said, I don't think the orientation makes any difference.
When I install the gears. I align the "diamonds" with the lower to the right of the drive gear. I've always done it that way. As stated above.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10075 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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The diamond marks have some meaning to the manufacturer, probably registration marks for the gear machining, but no meaning or relevance to the installer. Both gears are symmetrical, the idle gear is even symmetrical end-to-end. Don't pay them any nevermind. _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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bally Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 1182 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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Thanks for all the comments. It sounds like I'm good to go as is - once I fix the bottom stud issue. Has anyone had any luck installing Helicoils or similar to the bottom oil pump studs? My studs seem to be pulling out of the case... |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21510 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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bally wrote: |
Thanks for all the comments. It sounds like I'm good to go as is - once I fix the bottom stud issue. Has anyone had any luck installing Helicoils or similar to the bottom oil pump studs? My studs seem to be pulling out of the case... |
Use EZ-lok or time serts....solid wall inserts. NEVER use helicoils in cast aluminum that is hold parts with high load.
Ray |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9753 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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bally wrote: |
Thanks for all the comments. It sounds like I'm good to go as is - once I fix the bottom stud issue. Has anyone had any luck installing Helicoils or similar to the bottom oil pump studs? My studs seem to be pulling out of the case... |
Those studs should only be torqued to 14ft/lbs. Any more and you're asking for trouble.
Regarding the heli-coil. I hae never done one on a complete engine.
But I did rent/use this tool earlier this week to fix some stripped threads.
It worked perfectly. It might be a challenge to use it on an assembled engine. But I'm sure it can be done. If you are careful.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=705402
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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bally Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 1182 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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Thanks, that was an interesting read. I'll see if I can source the tool locally. My torque wrench doesn't go as low as 14 so I had it wound down off the end of the scale. I do need to get myself a low range torque wrench. Cheers. Dave |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9753 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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You can get a 3/8" torque wrench at Harbor Freight. They are cheap and accurate enough for your application.
The time sert tool will be a tough find no matter where you are located.
It's cheap to rent from AC.NET and the time serts are cheap too.
I never installed a heli coil. But the time sert was a first for me. I'm sold on the value of good quality thread inserts.
The choice is yours to make.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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bally Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 1182 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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I used to borrow my friend's low range torque wrench but have moved 12,000 miles away so need to step up and buy myself one now. I'm in Australia so not sure Ac.net would rent me the tool and shipping. Oth ways will be prohibitive. I'm sure I'll find something more local. Cheers. Dave |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9753 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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Shit! I didn't look at your location.
That might be a stretch to get the tool there.
I stand by my recommendations though.
Sorry for not reading the location you're at.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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bally Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 1182 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Oil pump gear orientation |
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No worries 😉 |
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