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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:51 pm Post subject: Clutch Issue |
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I pulled the motor from my 1959 bug yesterday originally to find what I thought was a dropped engine lid bolt; but search turned no results. What I did find was the retaining ring on clutch seemed to be loose; and possible cause of the noise from the engine ?
The engine is just rebuilt and original to the car, the transaxle is rebuilt and possibly from a year or two later. Not sure where to look on transmission to determine the year.
Curious as to how to align the retaining ring when coupling the engine to the transaxle; I use the aligmnment tools to install clutch and pressure assembly. The retaining ring is not fastened to the pressure plate and would seem to drop down when coupled to the bell housing.
Input welcomed.
[/img] _________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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61SNRF Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009 Posts: 4657 Location: Whittier 90602
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Depending on who made that pressure plate, in general the center ring should be snugly fixed to the center of the diaphragm by spring tension fit. You may be able to wiggle one a little bit, but it should not be loose enough to wobble like yours would appear to.
Might well cause a noise too depending on how much clutch adjustment free play you set it up with.
Another critical fact is it's face should be parallel to the cover, and there are no adjustments that can be made by the end user.
You can't buy the parts separate, given the circumstances the most practical way to address is with a new clutch cover.
AFA trans ID, pictures are always the best way
In the meantime, can you say if it's a "split case", as in two part case with a seam down the middle like the engine...
...or is it a "tunnel trans" or a one piece case with bolt on side covers?
Either way, same 180mm clutches fits them both spanning years ~'53 to '66, so do some shopping and research to find a clutch cover or kit to suit your needs. _________________ -Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Last edited by 61SNRF on Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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krs.br79 Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014 Posts: 358 Location: Utah
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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Thanks for the replies.
I will get a picture of the transaxle tomorrow to post.
It seems logical that the throwout bearing would need to move parallel to the clutch face, but I think mine is angled. I'll post tomorrow.
Solution seems to be find correct clutch to match transmission. Will measure parts but pretty sure I'm looking for 180 mm clutch.
Tom
[/img] _________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31378 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Yes, you need to get a new pressure plate.
If the throwout bearing and clutch disc are OK, re-use those. "Tad" of grease on the transmission shaft splines, and tad on the starter teeth. Grease the clutch cable threads while the engine is out too. You likely will need to re-adjust the clutch cable with this job, you may want to "unscrew" the nuts or wingnuts a little in advance (along with the greasing) to help with that. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Here is the throwout bearing in the transaxle; so loks like I need to get same clutch and pressure plate(180 mm). Do I need any spacer or guide tube, I think not ?
_________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Is their a heavier duty clutch available for 180 mm ? I bought the best there was to offer from CiP1 but this was the result.
May contact them but don't see any substitute on their website.
Tom _________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Former clutch:
TOB installed:
The clutch that is giving me the problem with the aligment collar on the pressure plate would appear to be Sachs; not sure why it failed or could it be "repaired with new collar ?
Also read through the links, which were very helpfull, thanks.
Tom _________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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krs.br79 Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2014 Posts: 358 Location: Utah
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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Thank you for the input, I have considered either "pressing" the collar to the pressure plate; or buying retaining collar as you suggest. Off to work for 10 days, so I have time to deliberate.
Thanks Tom _________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Contacted CiP1 they are going to contact the manufacturer to replace the clutch plate which is very fair if it happens.
Looking forward to get engine back in, but can now adjust the fan/thermostat linkage while engine is out.
Tom _________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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It has been suggested by some to "wire" the pressure plate retaining clips to the mounting arms of the throwout assembly.
Any pictures of how this looks, one continuous wire through both clip ends or individually ?
Tom _________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Correct install of throw out bearing to clutch cross shaft ? The manual shows the clips to hold the throw out bearing installed vertically (90 degrees) to shaft. Do I have it right ?
[/img] _________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 7028 Location: Clyde, TX
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Looking at your somewhat blurry, straight-on pic, I'd say it looks like you have the clips on correctly. The safety wire people have alluded to would be two pieces, one for each clip. You'll run the wire through the wound loop of the clip and around the arm of the clutch fork, then twist the two ends of the wire together. Here's a pic nicked from the gallery to give you somewhat of an idea how it works:
_________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Thanks Mukluk; will use lashing wire to secure TOB before I re-install the engine.
Tom _________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Expect refurbished clutch to be shipped Mar 15th. I worked on installing thermostat and throttle ring today. Adjusted and waiting for clutch before installing engine. Looking forward to running engine again.
Tom _________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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adam1991 Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2017 Posts: 1 Location: INDIANA
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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The collar is too loose I had this exact same problem. It is due to poor quality control on manufacture side. The retaining ring that keeps the collar to the pressure plate is not thick enough. I remedied this by adding a pinion gear shim underneath it.
Next time I see this I would cut the retainig ring with a pair of wire cutters instead taking a chunk out of it like I did. |
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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue resolved |
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So far the clutch plate is holding up. After some feet dragging the manufacturer replaced the clutch plate at no charge. I've put on 900+ miles on it since and with luck the issue is resolved. _________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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tomsbuggered Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014 Posts: 417 Location: Calgary, AB Canada
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Well I'm back to square one with this clutch. I pulled the engine two days ago and have the same issue with the collar being loose from the clutch fingers. I replaced a leaking rear seal, and went to install the clutch, but the collar that fastens to the "fingers" on the pressure plate is loose again. Will need to replace the clutch, is there a better source that will fit my 180 mm flywheel and eliminate the problem for good. It is a Sachs manufatured clutch. Anyone? _________________ June 1956 VW Oval Beetle |
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mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 7028 Location: Clyde, TX
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Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Clutch Issue |
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Two thoughts come to mind: either pick up a good condition original style pressure plate (three arm type), or swap over to the late style TOB with guide sleeve so you can pitch the troublesome ring. _________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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