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lobsterguy
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2022
Posts: 31
Location: ME
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 Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:00 pm Post subject: 2.1L cranks slowly, sometimes catches but won't stay on |
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After replacing V-belts, distributor cap + rotor, spark plug wires, and spark plugs, my van doesn't want to stay running. The first time it had a very slow crank but started up and stayed running for a few minutes with poor idle before stalling out. After that, it has been slowly cranking and occasionally catching, only to die immediately after. Gently revving to prevent stalling doesn't do anything and it sometimes backfires. This was while jumping the battery as it has been sitting for a while. Could it be as simple as bad gas, a bad starter, needing to adjust timing? Maybe something more complex? Thanks in advance
Jasper
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2.1L 1987 Manual Westy |
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Red Ryder
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Joined: June 26, 2021
Posts: 952
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1L cranks slowly, sometimes catches but won't stay on |
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Time for a new starting battery?
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“Most everyone’s mad here. You may have noticed I am not quite all there myself.” — Cheshire Cat, Adventures of Alice in Wonderland
“Scarlett” — 1990 Vanagon Carat Wolfsburg Edition
Tornado Red |
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lobsterguy
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2022
Posts: 31
Location: ME
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| Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1L cranks slowly, sometimes catches but won't stay on |
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It was replaced recently but sitting with a slight drain hasn't helped it. I'll make sure to charge it before trying tomorrow.
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2.1L 1987 Manual Westy |
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Igeo
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Joined: September 25, 2018
Posts: 888
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 6:59 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L cranks slowly, sometimes catches but won't stay on |
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Since you changed plug wires, re-check the firing order.
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1987 Westfalia 2.1 WBX Manual |
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DanHoug
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Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4799
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:08 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L cranks slowly, sometimes catches but won't stay on |
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aaaaand check to make sure your AFM plug is back in place instead of tucked in underneath the air cleaner <grin>.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
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Sodo
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Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9618
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:01 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L cranks slowly, sometimes catches but won't stay on |
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What is the current battery voltage?
The engine will crank slowly if the battery voltage is low,
and there’s no point in speculating what’s wrong if the battery voltage has not been specified.
If you have battery trouble, and wanna use your internet community to help, you need a voltmeter to give us some numbers.
If you charge the battery these problems may disappear (or diminish).
If you have not yet charged the battery, its worthwhile to know what the voltage “was” when it cranked real slow. Voltage in the 11s will do that. Even 12.0.v can be slow.
Some battery chargers have a voltmeter, that can tell you the voltage before charging. And after charging. While charging you will aee voltage 14v+.
What you “want” is, every morning after the battery has been “at rest” you want to see 12.6v (as “perfect“.)
More perfect would be 12.6v after being “at rest” for 2 weeks.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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lobsterguy
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2022
Posts: 31
Location: ME
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:14 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L cranks slowly, sometimes catches but won't stay on |
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Yes, sorry I forgot to add those numbers. Battery is currently sitting at 11.5 but when using a jumper pack was at 12.6. The van has long suffered from slow cranks even with a healthy battery but I am currently charging it to see if it resolves the current issues.
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dabaron
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Joined: June 21, 2018
Posts: 2561
Location: Philly, mang
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:56 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L cranks slowly, sometimes catches but won't stay on |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
| aaaaand check to make sure your AFM plug is back in place instead of tucked in underneath the air cleaner <grin>. |
far too common, but hey at least it's better than not having gas in the tank 
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1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
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Sodo
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Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9618
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:22 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L cranks slowly, sometimes catches but won't stay on |
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| lobsterguy wrote: |
| The van has long suffered from slow cranks even with a healthy battery |
The short answer to THAT factor is to make sure your grounds are in order.
You cannot do valid diagnosis with poor grounds either.
Plus your van doesn't work.
So starting with the grounds makes a lot sense.
You can't even evaluate the condition of the starter without a proper ground.
Don't buy a new starter before renewing the cables that give it the juice.
The grounds are likely 40 years old. It's time.
==================
Quite likely the battery power cannot complete it's circular path.
It goes:
from battery plus
to cable
to starter motor
to transaxle
to chassis
back to battery minus
The transaxle portion of the path is a series of dissimilar metals, and outdoors, it cannot withstand significant degradation over 40 years.
And NOBODY maintains it at all.
"Maintaining it" would be removing gearbox case bolts and cleaning the white corrosion off, in a path from the starter all the way across the gearbox, to the chassis.
And somehow cleaning the internal threads too.
It's almost impossible and you can imagine why nobody does it.
And you can also imagine why Vanagons have more starter problems than normal cars.
Normal cars aren't even on the road after 40 years, so they are not reporting such problems.
Anyway it's easy and cheap to bypass the gearbox - It's an unnecessary daisy-chain ground.
Upgrade to a copper cable direct from the starter to the chassis.
Copper is proper.
Then delete that existing forward strap like a bad memory.
And add a copper cable from the alternator direct to the chassis, if you can do this stuff.
And especially if you have a big 'house battery", or any other conditions of 'lost volts, poor charging, or strange electrical diagnosis.
Heres a how-to thread with pics: Direct starter to chassis - DIY ground cable strap
======================
You probably don't wanna know that "while the groundpath is degraded" that it's ruining the internals of your gearbox while doing so. (perhaps for years)
Gearbox internal erosion is a big problem for owners of antiques (if driven).
And especially antiques with big alternators, big headlights, big house batteries such as our Vanagons.
Less so for a garage queen (old Porsches etc).
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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lobsterguy
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2022
Posts: 31
Location: ME
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1L cranks slowly, sometimes catches but won't stay on |
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I'll be sure to give that re-route a go before trying again. I had replaced the forward strap (the old one was as bad as that picture) but didn't get a copper ground for it. Man at the auto parts store said it would be fine and I believed him  . I'll go through all the grounds and get up cleaned up or replaced.
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lobsterguy
Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2022
Posts: 31
Location: ME
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:42 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L cranks slowly, sometimes catches but won't stay on |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| lobsterguy wrote: |
| The van has long suffered from slow cranks even with a healthy battery |
And add a copper cable from the alternator direct to the chassis, if you can do this stuff.
And especially if you have a big 'house battery", or any other conditions of 'lost volts, poor charging, or strange electrical diagnosis.
Heres a how-to thread with pics: Direct starter to chassis - DIY ground cable strap
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Cleaned up a lot of the grounds within the engine bay, the negative ground strap and am ordering the cables for the starter and alternator. The new starter ground cable (2 AWG, 3 feet long, 3/8" lugs) costs only 25 bucks on Amazon. Where do you recommend I route the new alternator ground cable?
Thanks
Jasper
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