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pdx356
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2018
Posts: 16
Location: Portland, Oregon
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 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:39 pm Post subject: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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I saw an ad on craigslist for a Porsche 356SC engine, listed as a seized engine. I believe the ad was even on The Samba, and 356registry. It was listed for $2500, and I just couldn't pass it up. I've built my fair share of VW engines, mostly 1600s, and a 2liter 914 engine, and I replaced the cylinders and heads on a 356B engine, so I feel like I know my way around the aircooled breed. I rebuild motorcycles as well, so I'm pretty decent with the general/universal knowledge of internal combustion.
This will be the first time I've bought a seized Porsche engine with the intention of, well... I don't actually know?
The first thing I'm going to do is get it unstuck. It's missing carbs, it's got rat's nests in the heat exchangers, but I popped the valve covers off, and checked out the rockers. No signs of catastrophic failures.
I figure if I can get it unstuck, I'm going to invest in a good shop manual and rebuild it. If that goes well, I'll throw carbs on it. If that goes well I'll either throw it in a car and run it, tune it, and sell it or find a 356 with out an engine and take it from there.
Or just sell it?
Worst case scenario, I get it apart and find bad news, I part it out.
I've had 2 VW engines literally running beautifully after being stuck, and one was in even worse condition than this, so I'm optimistic.
It's sitting in a friend's garage with P-blaster in all the cylinders right now, I'll try and get it to budge on Monday.
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MoPor
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2010
Posts: 292
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:50 am Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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If you get it unstuck its unlikely the rings will ever seal again. One guy told me to try MMO ,WD40 then tranny oil and varsol. Then when I was done to get out the grinder with a thin cutting disk and split all the cylinders on both sides so I could release the pistons and disassemble it  That is what I did. I figure most engines are not in a car for a reason so it likely had issues before it was put away. New pistons and cylinders are relatively cheap (AA are approx $400)
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Matt
'58 356A coupe
'00 Boxster S |
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Sebastian Gaeta
Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2003
Posts: 289
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:44 am Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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Another sub-option if you decide to sell it is to go to the 356 Registry site and see if anyone is looking for that particular engine to reunite with their car as its original powerplant. There is an entire thread there regarding people looking for their original engine and they provide the number they are looking for. Hint: Most guys would pay above market for the original engine to their car. 
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Sebastian Gaeta
'63 Beetle Turkis
‘64 Karmann Ghia Coupe Manilagelb/Black Roof
'64 356C cabriolet Signalrot
'65 356C coupe Rubinrot
'66 Single Cab Velvet Green
'67 Karmann Ghia convertible Heliosblau |
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4025
Location: WA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:43 am Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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| Mount it to a stand and position two cyl.s at the 12 o`clock position, remove plugs and pour a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF and let it sit for two hours, replace the plugs, rotate motor and repeat, then let it sit level over night, then remove plugs and try to turn motor BACKWARDS and it should turn if it's going to. |
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pdx356
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2018
Posts: 16
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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| MoPor wrote: |
| If you get it unstuck its unlikely the rings will ever seal again. One guy told me to try MMO ,WD40 then tranny oil and varsol. Then when I was done to get out the grinder with a thin cutting disk and split all the cylinders on both sides so I could release the pistons and disassemble it That is what I did. I figure most engines are not in a car for a reason so it likely had issues before it was put away. New pistons and cylinders are relatively cheap (AA are approx $400) |
Hmmm... I'd be awfully bummed if I had to cut the cylinders. |
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pdx356
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2018
Posts: 16
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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| Sebastian Gaeta wrote: |
| Another sub-option if you decide to sell it is to go to the 356 Registry site and see if anyone is looking for that particular engine to reunite with their car as its original powerplant. There is an entire thread there regarding people looking for their original engine and they provide the number they are looking for. Hint: Most guys would pay above market for the original engine to their car. |
That's on my list of options for sure! |
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pdx356
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2018
Posts: 16
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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| Starbucket wrote: |
| Mount it to a stand and position two cyl.s at the 12 o`clock position, remove plugs and pour a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF and let it sit for two hours, replace the plugs, rotate motor and repeat, then let it sit level over night, then remove plugs and try to turn motor BACKWARDS and it should turn if it's going to. |
That's the method I'm going with now. Though, I don't have a stand yet. |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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Yes, I was watching this engine too. I sure would hate to see you wreck the case trying to turn it over like the above suggestions.
Take it apart man. You're going to love working on it. They are so beautiful...
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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pdx356
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2018
Posts: 16
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
Yes, I was watching this engine too. I sure would hate to see you wreck the case trying to turn it over like the above suggestions.
Take it apart man. You're going to love working on it. They are so beautiful... |
My feelings exactly. They really ARE beautiful engines! Out of curiosity, what made you decide not to buy it? |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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Well, I don't have a car for it. Would want it in an early bug or bus or the 356C. Still, it will make a fun bench engine to have ready.
The thing that could happen if the engine is forced to turn over with a broken crank or seized main bearing is you risk damaging the case. You can get new Big Bore Piston & Cylinder Kits for it from AA-Pistons for $460.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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pdx356
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2018
Posts: 16
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
Well, I don't have a car for it. Would want it in an early bug or bus or the 356C. Still, it will make a fun bench engine to have ready.
The thing that could happen if the engine is forced to turn over with a broken crank or seized main bearing is you risk damaging the case. You can get new Big Bore Piston & Cylinder Kits for it from AA-Pistons for $460. |
Yeah, I'm to take things nice and slow with this one. I've been letting the cylinders soak in penetrating oil for the weekend, I'm going to pull the cylinders off before I even try turning it. I'm tapped out for funds on this project, so I'm hoping I'll be re-using as much as I can, but replacing all the seals, rings, bearings. I'm suspicious of a cheaper set of pistons and cylinders. Anyone had problems with these?
$460 for bigger jugs is tempting. |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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If the rings were seized then it will turn by hand once the cylinders are off unless it's a problem in the bottom end and in that case you don't want to force it at all. These engines set for years and the rings rust to the cylinders really bad. If the engine has been rebuilt before it could already have 86's on it. I have run the early big bore I think they were Japanese Pistons and cylinders. I would assume the AA's would be at least as good as their VW P&C's and we all are running those on our Volkswagens.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4025
Location: WA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:25 am Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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| If you have the money buy Nickies instead of cheap cast pistons from China (AA).. |
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MoPor
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2010
Posts: 292
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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Like $3200 more. I'm sure the Nickies are the best but lots of people have had success with the AA p&cs. If I was going bigger than 86mm I would use them.
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Matt
'58 356A coupe
'00 Boxster S |
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PD41
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2016
Posts: 109
Location: Redondo Beach
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:32 am Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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| What is the engine number under the generator stand ? |
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pdx356
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2018
Posts: 16
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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| Starbucket wrote: |
| If you have the money buy Nickies instead of cheap cast pistons from China (AA).. |
If I had that kind of money, I'd have likely bought a 356 engine in better condition, LOL. I'm going to do my best to see if I can keep my costs down on this project, and spend more with my time and energy. If it takes a year to get this engine in tip-top shape, without having to spend more than a grand on new seals, rings, bearings, etc. I'll have reached my goal. I'm investing in various repair manuals as well. |
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pdx356
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2018
Posts: 16
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:13 am Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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| PD41 wrote: |
| What is the engine number under the generator stand ? |
#811890 |
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Tom_Kathleen
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2004
Posts: 919
Location: Vernon, CT
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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If you need a new set of P & C's, I have an extra set of AA's I can make you a deal on. Tom
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Manxter #16, 1968 Meyers Manx & Kick-Out SS #16 (WIP)
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4025
Location: WA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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| pdx356 wrote: |
| Starbucket wrote: |
| If you have the money buy Nickies instead of cheap cast pistons from China (AA).. |
If I had that kind of money, I'd have likely bought a 356 engine in better condition, LOL. I'm going to do my best to see if I can keep my costs down on this project, and spend more with my time and energy. If it takes a year to get this engine in tip-top shape, without having to spend more than a grand on new seals, rings, bearings, etc. I'll have reached my goal. I'm investing in various repair manuals as well.
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Good place for gaskets and parts is autohausaz.com. If you buy the AA P&Cs buy the "total seal" top ring for them and be sure to use cyl. spacer rings under the jugs as they will raise your compression too high without them (same spacers VW uses), I use .060". |
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MoPor
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2010
Posts: 292
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: just bought a seized 356SC engine. Want to talk about it? |
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| Starbucket wrote: |
| pdx356 wrote: |
| Starbucket wrote: |
| If you have the money buy Nickies instead of cheap cast pistons from China (AA).. |
If I had that kind of money, I'd have likely bought a 356 engine in better condition, LOL. I'm going to do my best to see if I can keep my costs down on this project, and spend more with my time and energy. If it takes a year to get this engine in tip-top shape, without having to spend more than a grand on new seals, rings, bearings, etc. I'll have reached my goal. I'm investing in various repair manuals as well.
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Good place for gaskets and parts is autohausaz.com. If you buy the AA P&Cs buy the "total seal" top ring for them and be sure to use cyl. spacer rings under the jugs as they will raise your compression too high without them (same spacers VW uses), I use .060". |
I thought the AAs give 9.5:1 compression with a 61 cc combustion chamber. Either way its good to check the piston to head clearance. Too much clearance is bad too.
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Matt
'58 356A coupe
'00 Boxster S |
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