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YosemiteBound Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2018 Posts: 327 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject: Before I pull the dash (troubleshooting non-op blower fan) |
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Hi folks,
Total newbie here. I finally sourced a dial to try my blower/heater out and it doesn't run... or turn on in any way or do anything. Perhaps this is why the PO removed the dial.
I'm assuming that the first thing I should do is check the fuse. Not pull the dash, right?
Problem is that I have the bentley and i can't find a fuse diagram. there's a diagram for the 86+ - but not previous. I do see the 85 wiring diagram but not one of the fuse box itself. It just kinda says blower fan - 105. Which makes no sense to me. Also, there's no diagram in the manual either. And no mention. It does have a fuse arrangement by number but no mention of the blower fan here.
Anyway, just trying to find the location of the blower fan fuse. Thx for any help
Also, do I need to remove the ground when changing fuses? Thanks!
God, pulling the dash is gonna suck so bad if the fan is dead.
And I promise I've read a ton of posts about the blower fan fuse. Just can't find any mention of where its location is (surely it's in the fuses to the left of the steering wheel but where?).
Is it fuse #10? windshield wiper/washer, blower? if my wipers work the fuse ain't blown, right?
Edit: Changed the thread title as post progressed. thx!
_________________ 1985 Westy Round Headlights "Liam"
Last edited by YosemiteBound on Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Blower fan fuse location for an 85 |
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number 10. I had to replace my motor as it was seized. There are some who do this mod called mullendore (spelling) port where they drill somewhere to oil the fan without taking apart the dash. But if it probably just needs to be replaced. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Blower fan fuse location for an 85 |
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Sounds like it is not the fuse.
YosemiteBound wrote: |
...it doesn't run... or turn on in any way or do anything. Perhaps this is why the PO removed the dial... |
Pretty common for the bearing on that motor to seize up. Sometimes you can get a balky one to run by flipping to the highest speed then backing down to 1 or 2. Other times even full power won't move it.
There is a fix (something of a Hail Mary in your case) but much easier than pulling the dash:
The Mullendore Port
This trick is a no-brainer if the bearing is squealing but may also free a lightly seized motor. May be necessary to also use a long probe to move the motor a bit to help the lube work. |
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YosemiteBound Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2018 Posts: 327 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Blower fan fuse location for an 85 |
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Thanks Shagginwagon. Yeah, Im so new to electrical and vanagons and all. I probably sound like a doof. I know I do. I just didn't think a blower fan would be on the same fuse as the windshield wipers. Here is what mine looks like. This all looks good right (also what kind of fuses are these? I bought automotive fuses from home depot and they look nothing like these)? As in, nothing needs replacing - i.e. broken?
I did read about the drilling/lubing fix. But I guess since mine isn't making any noise at all. like, switching it on does nothing in any way that it needs to be replaced. Blah.
I called my fav vw shop and he said they don't do the blower motor because it's such a pain in the butt. but if they did it would be a two day job and over a thousand bucks. so looks like i'm going to give it a shot. so scared.
is there anything else to check at all before trying to pull the dash and get in there? besides the fuse?
thank god there are a lot of pulling the dash youtube videos. tho it looks even more daunting after watching them.
Edit: I can see that my fuse photo sucks. It's pretty impossible to see what's broken or not. except number 10. pretty clear that one is okay. And thanks Ahwahnee. Would love to know what kind of fuses these are and where to find them tho - just to triple check before pulling the dash (argh!) _________________ 1985 Westy Round Headlights "Liam" |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3803 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Blower fan fuse location for an 85 |
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yeah buddy there is load of stuff you need to do while you have a dash out.
-Consider jeep resistor mod
-clean and reseal heater box
-inspect, if not replace heater core
-wiper linkage system - clean and lube
-inspect, if not replace windshield wiper hoses - maybe upgrade to dual or tri sprayers
-sound deadner
-inspect, ground trees. clean up
-inspect back of fuse panel for any melted wires _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Blower fan fuse location for an 85 |
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Fuses should be available at auto parts stores. Used in VW & Fiats not so long ago.
YosemiteBound wrote: |
...It's pretty impossible to see what's broken or not. except number 10. pretty clear that one is okay... |
That may be a clue.
Normally when you try to power up a seized blower motor the fuse will blow in a matter of seconds.
Since the fuse did not blow, the issue may be in the wiring, the wires you have selected or how you set it up. You mentioned a 'dial' - was this a rotary switch or a potentiometer or what? At this point I would not mess with any dial, just apply power to the lead to the motor to test it. |
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YosemiteBound Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2018 Posts: 327 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Blower fan fuse location for an 85 |
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Ahwahnee wrote: |
Fuses should be available at auto parts stores. Used in VW & Fiats not so long ago.
YosemiteBound wrote: |
...It's pretty impossible to see what's broken or not. except number 10. pretty clear that one is okay... |
That may be a clue.
Normally when you try to power up a seized blower motor the fuse will blow in a matter of seconds.
Since the fuse did not blow, the issue may be in the wiring, the wires you have selected or how you set it up. You mentioned a 'dial' - was this a rotary switch or a potentiometer or what? At this point I would not mess with any dial, just apply power to the lead to the motor to test it. |
Thanks Ahwahnee (love your name). To be honest, I have no idea what you're talking about lol. My other cars are a 2017 Tacoma and a 2008 volvo xc70. My wife and I just picked up this westy to take fam trips with the kiddo. Anyhow, I guess I didn't mean dial. I just meant the knob that turns the fan on - on the dash. Mine was missing when I bought it. I just found one and stuck it in there and turned it to the right. Nothing happened. It would be great if it wasn't a blown motor! How do I apply lead to the blower motor to test it? Sorry if it's a dumb question. I can try to google that too. We'll need the heater for a trip up to Seattle this winter (the rear one works great).
Quick question: since fuse 10 applies to the windshield wipers as well - wouldn't those stop working with the wiring or fuse was shot? _________________ 1985 Westy Round Headlights "Liam" |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3582 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Blower fan fuse location for an 85 |
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YosemiteBound wrote: |
Ahwahnee wrote: |
Fuses should be available at auto parts stores. Used in VW & Fiats not so long ago.
YosemiteBound wrote: |
...It's pretty impossible to see what's broken or not. except number 10. pretty clear that one is okay... |
That may be a clue.
Normally when you try to power up a seized blower motor the fuse will blow in a matter of seconds.
Since the fuse did not blow, the issue may be in the wiring, the wires you have selected or how you set it up. You mentioned a 'dial' - was this a rotary switch or a potentiometer or what? At this point I would not mess with any dial, just apply power to the lead to the motor to test it. |
Thanks Ahwahnee (love your name). To be honest, I have no idea what you're talking about lol. My other cars are a 2017 Tacoma and a 2008 volvo xc70. My wife and I just picked up this westy to take fam trips with the kiddo. Anyhow, I guess I didn't mean dial. I just meant the knob that turns the fan on - on the dash. Mine was missing when I bought it. I just found one and stuck it in there and turned it to the right. Nothing happened. It would be great if it wasn't a blown motor! How do I apply lead to the blower motor to test it? Sorry if it's a dumb question. I can try to google that too. We'll need the heater for a trip up to Seattle this winter (the rear one works great).
Quick question: since fuse 10 applies to the windshield wipers as well - wouldn't those stop working with the wiring or fuse was shot? |
Yes, good catch on the shared circuit judgement- if you have wipers, you should have a good fuse-
More schooling on using and WATCHING Ceramic Euro fuses- They age more than other types in my experience. The fuse element starts to lift up or curl upward with time or white corrosion forms at the ends of the fuse-especially the 8 amp ones
They also can crack right in that thin section of the fuse element, where it’s skinny.
Best practice is to always carry good known spares, like in a Zip Lock bag away from air and moisture to lengthen their service life( I personally think the White 8 amp fuses are the weakest, the Red and Blue fuses just seem hardier even sitting around...
Find a reliable source for getting spares, they just aren’t around as easy as later blade style fuses usually. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9810 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Blower fan fuse location for an 85 |
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Okay, so you have the stock switch in the dash. I don't think I have ever removed mine but with what you are seeing (blower motor does not run, yet fuse does not blow) I'd want to check the leads to the switch.
Specifically, checking to see if it is getting power and then if it is providing power to the fan motor.
I think you still have a few things to check before you pull the dash. |
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YosemiteBound Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2018 Posts: 327 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Blower fan fuse location for an 85 |
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Hey guys,
Okay I'm ready to begin troubleshooting the fan. I'm just trying to get a good idea on what to check first... before pulling the dash (the horror!).
So, I've checked the fuse. It looks good. And the wipers work. So not the fuse. I like what Ahwahnee is saying. That maybe I have a few more things to check.
My plan:
I will pull the vent plate with the knobs on it. I will swap out the fan dial switch thing. See if that helps. If not, I am unsure where to go from here. I am not at all mechanically or electrically inclined. But I'm hoping to become more so.
So, I unplug the battery first i think. Right? Then I swap out switches and see if that helps. If it doesn't help - how do I find out if the fan is okay and I have a wiring problem? In other words - how do I get power to the blower fan if it isn't a switch problem?
I just have a normal toolbox with normal toolbox stuff. And a drill. No soldering iron or ohmmeter or anything... yet. But don't hesitate to let me know if I need one _________________ 1985 Westy Round Headlights "Liam" |
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T3messie Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2017 Posts: 209 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Before I pull the dash (troubleshooting non-op blower fan) |
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Hi,
take out the car stereo if there is one. Then you hace access to the back of your switch. Pull off the back part of the switch with the wires, don´t pull at the wires, it can be a tight fit.
Now you have a plug with 4? wires. On one of them has to be electricity.
You can easy test it with a piece of wire connecting every 4 connections (shortly and one after another) with the ground in your car (bare metal, steering column f.e.). At the right one there is sparkling on your wire and if you connect long enough, the fuse will blow. If there is no sparkling, follow back the wires.
When you found the right one, connect it with every one of the other three (one after another again) by bridging it with your piece of wire.
If the blower turns on at all three connections (slow, middle, full Power), your switch is defekt. If it only turns on full power, the resistor is broken and the switch is broken too.
If it is not blowing at all, the dashboard work begins .
Just try this out first, you can´t do anything wrong except blowing fuse number 10.
Pardon my americanish. |
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levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Before I pull the dash (troubleshooting non-op blower fan) |
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Here's my advice, since it looks like you're going to be pulling the dash.
Take LOTS of pictures.
It really isn't so difficult, its just time consuming.
Make sure you get pics of how the 4 cables are routed that control your air vents, etc., and go slow.
_________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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markswagen Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2018 Posts: 1039 Location: san diego
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Before I pull the dash (troubleshooting non-op blower fan) |
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There are a lot of words up there, and I'm not great at reading, but.
Pull the fan switch, there's a round plug, with 4 maybe 5 wires, the black with a red trace, or red with a bracket trace, I can't remember which way around it is, that is the power wire for the fan, test it with a volt meter, with luck you have 12v with the ignition on, next test the continuity of the ground wire, if you have continuity there, you need to go further, as it sounds like none of the 3 speeds work, it is most likely the motor rather than the resistor, if you had high speed, but no low or mid speed, it would likely be the resistor, as the high speed doesn't go through the resistor.
Pulling the dash is not so scary, get yourself a BMW brake booster to hand, you night as well do that upgrade while you have it all apart. _________________ markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3582 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Before I pull the dash (troubleshooting non-op blower fan) |
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levi wrote: |
Here's my advice, since it looks like you're going to be pulling the dash.
Take LOTS of pictures.
It really isn't so difficult, its just time consuming.
Make sure you get pics of how the 4 cables are routed that control your air vents, etc., and go slow.
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Well if THAT didn't scare them for diagnosing the Blower Motor, NOTHING will...... "It really isn't so Difficult...'
Although that first picture really helps explain the location of the Mullendore Port for lubing the outer Blower Motor bearing- The one that's new in the picture doesn't look like it could be lubed in the usual way... _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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joetiger Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 5078 Location: denver
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Blower fan fuse location for an 85 |
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YosemiteBound wrote: |
Thanks Shagginwagon. Yeah, Im so new to electrical and vanagons and all. I probably sound like a doof. I know I do. |
I have 20 years working on Vanagons and I still sound like a doof, so don't let that stop you.
Here's a great tutorial for removing the dash:
http://www.benplace.com/dash.htm _________________ Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Before I pull the dash (troubleshooting non-op blower fan) |
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Did I miss the part where the OP has confirmed that power is passing the switch and going to the blower motor and the motor still does not run?
Until that point, talk of pulling the dash is 'sky is falling' diagnostics. |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2325 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Before I pull the dash (troubleshooting non-op blower fan) |
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^^^^
Just so. The first step should be to suspect the ground connection to the motor - this is the most likely culprit if the motor won't even run on 'high'. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9937 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Before I pull the dash (troubleshooting non-op blower fan) |
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Yes, if the fan fuse is still good. If the motor does nothing on high speed and the fuse never blows then strongly suspect the ground. Pulling the dash is a last resort when diagnosis calls for it.
Mark
fxr wrote: |
^^^^
Just so. The first step should be to suspect the ground connection to the motor - this is the most likely culprit if the motor won't even run on 'high'. |
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boxer74 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011 Posts: 709 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Before I pull the dash (troubleshooting non-op blower fan) |
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crazyvwvanman wrote: |
Yes, if the fan fuse is still good. If the motor does nothing on high speed and the fuse never blows then strongly suspect the ground. Pulling the dash is a last resort when diagnosis calls for it.
Mark
fxr wrote: |
^^^^
Just so. The first step should be to suspect the ground connection to the motor - this is the most likely culprit if the motor won't even run on 'high'. |
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Resurrecting an old thread, but where is the ground connected for the blower motor? _________________ 74 Super
84 Westy |
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wesitarz Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012 Posts: 1491 Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Before I pull the dash (troubleshooting non-op blower fan) |
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On my 88 vanagon it's connected to one of the ground trees behind the fuse box. I knocked mine off when replacing the brake booster. |
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