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How to fix this rust spot more solidly...?
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Buggeee
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
OK, I am now pretty much resigned to having to drill as small holes as possible in order to get a spray paint can to spray inside... After that use some spray wax which I just found out I can get with the extension hose, here in town.


Maybe the extension hose will work on the spraypaint can as well. You will need more than one can of the spray wax to do your van anyway so can use an extra hose on the spraypaint can.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:50 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

Buggeee wrote:
epowell wrote:
OK, I am now pretty much resigned to having to drill as small holes as possible in order to get a spray paint can to spray inside... After that use some spray wax which I just found out I can get with the extension hose, here in town.


Maybe the extension hose will work on the spraypaint can as well. You will need more than one can of the spray wax to do your van anyway so can use an extra hose on the spraypaint can.


TBH I had not even thought about the rest of the van - I've just been focused on this one area. Are there any threads here talking about doing all the vulnerable cavities in the van?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
Are there any threads here talking about doing all the vulnerable cavities in the van?


Here you go.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8946528#8946528
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

Buggeee wrote:

Maybe the extension hose will work on the spraypaint can as well. You will need more than one can of the spray wax to do your van anyway so can use an extra hose on the spraypaint can.


OK, so I have some good news... the SPRAY WAX which is available here in town, my parts guy is giving to me for 1/2 price (he always give me this Smile ) is only $10! ...and the extension hose supposedly works with all spray cans... so I am now thinking best is to buy another can of wax, and then buy some metal primer and use the extra extension hose for the primer only (and one hose for wax only).
My assumption here is that when using this extension hose/sprayer it would not be wise to use it for spraying this black tar-based undercoating (which also comes in a spray - I can also buy here locally) > but I am thinking that the black undercoating might totally gum up the ext.hose and render it useless for future usage (like in upcoming years)... so probably better to used an ordinary metal primer spray paint - then a coat of wax on top of that.

What I am thinking is to soak these ex.hoses in acetone after usage - even possibly permanently store them in a sealed jar of acetone in order to make sure any residue left inside would not dry up and clog the sprayers? --- on the other hand perhaps long-term storage with this plastic hose always submerged in acetone might eventually dissolve the plastic itself?? Is this possible? Any recommendations on cleaning and storing these little ext.hoses to be able to use them in the future?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

I would blow some carb cleaner (maybe acetone) thru the hose after I used it. Let the cleaner evaporate then store the hose in a bag.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
[Any recommendations on cleaning and storing these little ext.hoses to be able to use them in the future?

As with any rattle can spray, blow the excess stuff out by turning the can upside down
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
Buggeee wrote:

Maybe the extension hose will work on the spraypaint can as well. You will need more than one can of the spray wax to do your van anyway so can use an extra hose on the spraypaint can.


OK, so I have some good news... the SPRAY WAX which is available here in town, my parts guy is giving to me for 1/2 price (he always give me this Smile ) is only $10! ...and the extension hose supposedly works with all spray cans... so I am now thinking best is to buy another can of wax, and then buy some metal primer and use the extra extension hose for the primer only (and one hose for wax only).
My assumption here is that when using this extension hose/sprayer it would not be wise to use it for spraying this black tar-based undercoating....]



SEE EDIT BELOW

Gray sandable primer from a rattle can will not seal against moisture, and it does not bond well to bare metal. You should use the self-etching primer, which usually as a light green color to it. You can get it in a spray can. Look for "self-etching" or "bare-metal" on the can. Self-etching primer bonds to bare metal and also provides some protection against moisture. I've took my bug down to bare metal and sprayed the whole thing with self-etching primer from cans and it goes about a year before I need to touch it up. (Man I've got to paint that bug!)

If it were me, I would spray it with a light coat of the self-etching bare metal primer, move the hose to a can of spray paint of any color, wait 10 minutes to let the primer flash, and hit it again with the spray paint to provide a protective top coat against moisture. When you spray the primer and paint, the metal should be at a temperature of 70 degrees. Set a propane heater, or electric heater, facing the work area and let that metal warm up. Then turn off the heater and hit it with the primer and paint, then turn the heater back on for an hour or two to keep the metal warm while the paint flashes. I'd let that paint cure for a few days, or maybe a week if it is cold out, before spraying the wax on it. I would plan on throwing away the tube that you use for the paint.

Just some thoughts from a hack.

EDIT: I just went back and looked and see that you are using epoxy primer, so that seals things up just fine if that is what you are using.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
I would blow some carb cleaner (maybe acetone) thru the hose after I used it. Let the cleaner evaporate then store the hose in a bag.


Aha... you mean just hook it up to a spray can that contains brake cleaner or maybe WD40 and spray for a while?? Great idea!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

Gearing up to start spraying... running into some issues.
What I have found is that there are 2 types of sprayers on typical spray cans - both are the same except that on one type the removable spray knob contains the "activator tube/stick" [for lack of better word], and on the other type the "activator tube/stick" is fixed on the spray can.
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The WAX can has the tube/stick on the spray knob, but all my other cans are of the other type... I began trying to grind away a typical spray knob to get down to just that tube/stick... then I found an old can of spray paint in the attic - who knows how old... it was purchased in German Marks!!! It looks like enamel paint... and this can has the COMPATIBLE type of sprayer as my WAX can...
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I know paint has a shelf life (but Germany makes GOOD stuff), so I took a sample of my sheet metal and sprayed it... and it sticks and holds very very well.
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So at this point, realizing that this old German spray enamel is not the most ideal of paints for this job, but still, it has the right kind of sprayer (and I am very concerned that I won't be able to find any other spray cans with this kind of sprayer these days - and you have to open the package to find out)... I will just go ahead and use this German stuff to spray these interior parts with bare metal... then after a few days, hit it with wax also. Not ideal but a lot better than doing nothing Smile

I will do my best to heat up the work area before spraying.....
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

Well, I got the innards all sprayed up... finally I didn't need to drill any new holes - it all went well with the access holes I had already provided. After I finished I hooked up the ext.hose to my spray can of brake fluid (which luckily has the compatible type of sprayer) and sprayed for a while to clean out the hose... seemed to clean up really well.

I have no idea how well the paint sprayed on inside but I think it worked well - I will leave it for a couple of days and put on another coat - then another coat a few days after that - then let it all dry for a week before waxing. Its just a small area and a couple of minutes work - and not likely that I would use that paint for anything else.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

Iím jealous of the progress your making! Iím moving slower fixing the same area. Never enough time for the fun work Very Happy

Iím not sure about enamel paints, but the local paint supplier where I got my urethane paints told me I need to re-coat within 24 hours for the paint layers to bind together. More then that and Iíd get bad adhesion which can lead to area for moisture to collect. Might want to check re-coat times for that paint.

Mark
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

I would not sweat the recoat time too much. You've got one coat on and that area is not going to be subject to inspection. Just throw a bunch of waxoyl on it at the end and call it a day.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

Yeah, this old enamel sticks REALLY well to that scrape piece and dried 100% in 30min. at room temp. I'll just spray some more in there tomorrow and maybe even the next day --- then wax it up. Could have done better but feels to me like a pretty solid repair > and learned A LOT [maybe the other side needs doing?]
But I remember what Ben told me: just stick to one small area of the van at a time - do that - then move one. Never try to do too much all at once. --- this was BY FAR the worst area on my van so now I am more relaxed.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

Awesome progress!!! This is a beast of a repair and now it is a beastly strong jack point that will outlast the rest of the van. Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:14 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

Buggeee wrote:
Awesome progress!!! This is a beast of a repair and now it is a beastly strong jack point that will outlast the rest of the van. Cool


Thanks Rolling Eyes ...but it's still not finished Smile ...and I will still have to keep waxing it and keeping an eye on it because this is the place that I fill up the water tank > and whenever I overfill water goes right down there --that is most likely why it got rusted out to begin with.

The other thing is that someone at sometime in the past did one Hell of a lot of body work on this van - cut out tons of rust and welded in lots of new panels. But from what I now know that welding leaves a vulnerable (to rusting) surface in the inner side of wherever you weld, and this previous repair person did nothing to seal and protect the inside surfaces after welding > therefore slowly slowly all of this previous rust is coming back. So I need to figure out how best to deal with this. Any chance I get I am grinding off rust and sealing - but I think I will (next Spring) begin a regular series of full wax treatments.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

Heat gun... warm up the area... spray on some more paint INSIDE and outside of the repair. The enamel is sticking very well, and spraying on very well - even on day 2 after cleaning on day 1.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

> > > ...the Winter passed and sunshiny warm days have returned, so now it is time to finish up my body work.

I am trying to get this replacement panel back onto the van... my original plan was to glue in this panel, but it has proven extremely difficult to locate BODY PANEL ADHESIVE. Keep in mind, I am in Czech and my Czech speaking is only "so-so". But to my surprise yesterday at an auto-parts store I asked for Body Panel Adhesive and they showed me some stuff they assured me would work. Long story short, I think they slightly mis-understood, and I am not sure that this product will be strong enough. It is a single part glue which is like a combo "caulk/glue".

My original plan was to glue in some strips of thin aluminum around the edges of the hole which would over-hang there by creating a gluing surface for the panel. What I have now decided to do is to go ahead and do it this way completely - using this glue that I have, then once it is on, I will tack weld the panel all along the but edge on the panel side where it will be visible.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

I think most overlap the panels and glue them to each other. They use body filler to blend the seam. Thatís in place of seam welding the panels with no overlap.

While welding will give you possibly a more structural repair, welding causes a lot of warping. Welding also requires clean surfaces. I wonder how your adhesive will do with the heat of welding.

You may want to reconsider welding after gluing. You can use pop rivets or small sheet metal screws to hold your replacement panel while the glue sets up on your aluminum support.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
I think most overlap the panels and glue them to each other. They use body filler to blend the seam. Thatís in place of seam welding the panels with no overlap.

While welding will give you possibly a more structural repair, welding causes a lot of warping. Welding also requires clean surfaces. I wonder how your adhesive will do with the heat of welding.

You may want to reconsider welding after gluing. You can use pop rivets or small sheet metal screws to hold your replacement panel while the glue sets up on your aluminum support.


I just really wonder how strong this glue I got is... they were super confident at the place I bought it. I even told them I was skeptical because it was a 'single part' glue (not epoxy) and she insisted that epoxy is not good because it is too ridged....

...so maybe I will glue it all up, and wait to see how hard it dries. I don't think the glue will be happy underneath the heat of the weld... but of course I would just be doing one tiny tack weld every 3 or 4 minutes in spread out locations - so it won't get all extremely hot. . . . but, who knows. Obviously this is a learning curve for me.

By the way, when do I graduate from this school!!? Shocked
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: How to fix this rust spot more solidly...? Reply with quote

So I managed to get the whole thing "glued" up with this questionable glue.
Can't work outside for the next 4 days because it is Easter and in this North Moravian village they take these things seriously (Easter)...

Now I am wondering if this patch might even fall off if I drive before welding it on? ...thinking about going for a very long drive this weekend to test out the new gearbox.

Maybe sneak out in the morning to weld a few tacks just to make sure it doesn't fall off. Gaffers tape would provide a guarantee, but I'm out of it...
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