How to fix this rust spot more solidly...?

[epowell]

[MarkWard]

In the middle picture, notice the 3 holes around the vicegrips in the bottom plate. That is for a rosette weld to secure the new plate to the bracket below. VW did the same thing originally but from below.

I am not a big fan of flux core welding. My MIG can do both, the main difference was adding a tank and regulator. Flux core is probably fine for welding steel plates on a bench, but you really need to be chipping as you go to remove the flux.

Not so great with eyeballing measurements, but the metal he used is not that heavy of a gauge. The strength in unibody, comes from triangulation and boxing. Your welder is probably up to the task. Again, I would get a hood from a junkyard for a supply of cheap decent steel and practice getting good penetration with your welder before actually tacking in parts.

Edit: It looks like he is using weld through primer. I like that idea, it will protect the metal that you can't reach later on.


Edit: #2, I use manilla folders to make templates of the parts I will need. Once the template fits, I transfer it to the metal I need to cut out. For some reason I always have folders around.

Edit: #3. You are making puzzle peices. You start from the inner most part and work your way out. Sometimes you need to have a section done, before you make your next peice.
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[zuhandenheit]

[epowell]

Thanks guys! ...I so much appreciate the technical and moral support. I do know that I can somehow tackle this > but I leave in 10 days for a 6 week trip to Canada... I think I need to accept the fact that my van is now up on blocks, and almost certainly will still be on the same blocks until I return from Canada > I know how things go and this is going to take me some time to do properly. An expert could do it in 1 or 2 days, but I totally new to this sorta stuff.

My other concern is my wimpy welder. In general a flux core machine should be strong enough to handle this, but mine for some reason has a tough time burning thru on even 1mm sheet metal! The upside of this is that there is no way I am going to burn thru anything with this machine > but I am very concerned about getting the needed penetration which will be needed in the highly stressed area.

On the other hand if I can do everything with 1.5mm sheet-metal then maybe this machine could turn out to be ideally suited to the job? I'll just have to try, and if it doesn't workout, I'll have to invest in a MIG. Hence, my acceptance that this can take a while and in the meantime I can't drive.

However I absolutely love the challenge, and this "puzzle pieces" stuff.... I have a lot of experience with this kind of thing in my instrument building. In an 30 string, 3 neck guitar I recently built, I realized I didn't make the soundboard and bracing strong enough so after it was all finished I had to keep adding little bits of wood to the soundboard - reaching in thru the soundhole blind. . . probably 20 pieces and 5 days later it was stable enough. Wow... but one needs to consider where the pressure and force will be and what can be added where to make it strong. A car is much easier than a guitar because the car does not need to "still sound good" after you have added strengthening pieces

OK, slowly now I will attack this and not expect to get it done until I return > even though I do now have about 10 days of free time right now...
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www.edwardpowell.com

[zuhandenheit]

What you say about the welder is worrying!

Like many, I can hardly weld my van's sheet metal using flux-core at even the lowest settings, without burning holes right through! Also, it makes a damn mess.

If there's any way at all that you could use a mig setup for this, it will make your life so much easier. And if you can't burn through the panels, I worry -- as you note -- that you're not getting full penetration.

[epowell]

What thickness of sheet metal will I need for rebuilding the INNER SKIN PANEL? 1.5/2mm??

Here are some tests I did last year with thin metal. I have a feeling that if I can find out how to tweek my welder somewhat I can get more power out of it. Maybe I can get it to work... if not I'll buy a MIG, but for now I'd sorta rather make do with what I have. . .

[zuhandenheit]

10 seconds! Wow, that's a shockingly low-power welder.

At the lowest power setting, using flux-core wire, I'm thinking one second is enough to blow through sheet metal.

Unless the settings are wrong -- i.e., unless you can get more power -- I'm sorry to say that I doubt you'll be able to effect an adequate repair using this welder.

Supposing you can get good penetration, if it takes anywhere near 10 seconds for each spot you weld, it will, one, be an extremely tedious process, two, be potentially hard not to warp the panels (I think you'll be putting way more heat into the panels than with a more powerful welder -- I hope that doesn't seem counter-intuitive), and three, you'll likely have to do a ton of grinding to clean up your welds.

I tried using flux core for body work just once. I think I accidentally returned a rented gas canister before realizing I hadn't welded the steps -- I wanted to remove the rubber and weld up the holes, and fix a little rust to prepare for bedliner. So, I didn't especially care how my welds looked, since it's just a step and would be coated in bedliner, and figured flux core would be fine. It worked out but took probably three times as long as with MIG, because I did burn through a few times and I had to grind a lot, and it was extremely unsatisfying.

You should try welding the metal you've removed just to see how it goes (remove the paint first).

But yeah, if at all possible, get a mig welder! Any chance you can rent one?

By the way, I use a Clarke 180en:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004WF3PLU/

I didn't have much money to spend and found one used for I think under $250. They're actually well made (in Europe) though the manufacturer is pretty much unknown. Parts would be harder to get than for a more common welder. Also if I did it again I'd probably stick with a 120v welder.

That's just an example of what's out there -- not a recommendation.

[epowell]

edit: I guess wender issues can be more focused if dealt with on my "how to weld" thread > https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=140

[epowell]

So right now, my main concern is to plan exactly what more I am going to cut out, and exactly what and where I will add more pieces later...

My very first decision is whether or not to cut this small remaining portion of the WHEEL ARCH. It is solid and not rusted, and keeping it there can help me keep the correct orientation of everything else that I will add... but the downside is that while it is there it is limiting my accessibility and workability.

Right now I am considering the CROSS-SECTION of the thing, and here is a diagram I have drawn... the main elements are:
1) the bracket
2) the inner-most wall (which covers the bracket and extends further outwards from the bracket to form the first and bottom-most layer of the "sill"
3) the 2nd Panel, or "inner skin"... this extends down to the outer edge of the bracket and lies on top of the "inner wall piece" which makes up the 2nd layer of the "sill"
4) the outer skin which attaches at the bottom onto the "sill" thereby making up the 3rd and final layer of the "sill"

As you can see on my pic, the portion of the inner-wall that goes across (on top of) the bracket is toast... so that will need to be replaced.

So my next question is "how much of the SILL should I remove"?

Probably I should remove the entire sill and all remaining scrapes of the inner-wall on top of the bracket, then add a totally new piece to lie on top of the bracket and form a new SILL from scratch?
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[MarkWard]

I know only a little about European electricity. I own a Lincoln plasma cutter that I bought at a trade show. They were cutting 1/4" plate and it was a 110 volt unit. I was very impressed.

The new one showed up and the truth came out. It would work on 110 15 amp service or 20 amp service or it could be wired to 220 volt service.

Well on 110 15 amp service it could barely cut sheetmetal. Even though the breaker was rated higher, some how it knew the standard outlet was a 15 amp.

Trying to run it on max without good power it died. I contacted Lincoln and explained the trade show was deceptive and they agreed to repair it on their dime out of warranty. I only use it on a 30 amp 220 service now and it works great.

I mention this because your work area is a little rural and you are probably using antique house wiring and an extension cord. A good welder needs good power to function properly.

You still have the other side for shapes and dimensions. It's a mirror of the LS.
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[epowell]

[dobryan]

[Bulli Klinik]

An extension cord is a big resistor. Is the cord getting hot? Please post a short video of you using the welder and perhaps the problem can be solved.

Turn the welder on high and adjust the wire speed range until is sounds like consistent, cooking bacon.

Flux core is terrible for this type of work, but you use what you have. Be sure to wash off any residual flux with boiling hot water and a wire brush prior to applying any finish.
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I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[epowell]

[MarkWard]

I said earlier, I was able to add gas after I purchased my Miller Wire Feed Welder. You might want to check the specs on yours. It may have a provision for a gas connection. You'll need the tank and regulator if you go to a replacement unit anyways.

When I purchased my welder, I was welding a unibody clip into my race car. I had the option to buy a smaller unit, mine is a 120 amp unit 220 volt. A smaller unit would have worked for the one project, but I have actually made money doing welding side jobs and have welded up to 1/4" on a single pass.

You probably notice if your neighbor is welding, how many folks stop by to get something done. My welder has paid for itself a few times and no regrets buying one bigger than I needed at the time.

Here in Florida, we lease the gas bottle. When it is empty, your return it and they swap it out for a filled one. I'm on my second regulator, but it was my fault it got damaged.
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[alaskadan]

I posted some questions on your other welding thread trying figure out what's going on with your welder. Something else I've noticed with flux core wire is that it doesn't have as much backbone as solid wire. For the drive wheels its more like pushing a piece of spaghetti through the liner to the gun and doesn't slide through as well and can cause slippage at the wheels. Causing a crappy inconsistent weld. Thus forcing you to tighten up the drive wheels , which in turn can distort the soft flux cored wire and exacerbate the problem. If your welders plastic sleeve and liner are cheap, stiff and hold a coil memory you should stretch it out straight and try to keep it that way.

[epowell]

Just got finished Day1... struggled most of the day figuring how what actually to do... but now at the end of the day, I have my plan completely sorted out >>> the only thing now holding me back is the welder.

Yes my neighbor is making money welding for sure!
My machine will ONLY do flux

As soon as I can get around to it I will make some more welding tests and consult with some folks here.

I really really appreciate all the advice here - all is useful!

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www.edwardpowell.com

[dobryan]

Maybe it is time to hire your neighbor to weld this. Maybe barter for something you can do for him?

You can drive this across the street, it should not have issues for a short distance.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[MarkWard]

If it were me, from what I can see in your pictures, I would attempt to make the piece across the bottom in one piece. That will give you the best load strength.

I would also cut the bottom of this triangle section loose so that you can fit the new plate in across the entire bracket.

I would also remove the green peice after you have your plate is tacked in and seam weld the front of the bracket to your new plate.

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[epowell]