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sebdaneb07 Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2017 Posts: 30 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:05 am Post subject: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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Hi there,
My 71 beetle has recently been experiencing severe hesitation ( sometimes so much that it stalls at traffic lights) when I try to pull away. I have real trouble getting it into 1st and 2nd as the engine misfires unless I push the pedal down harder and rev it up real good and power shift. Also I've been pumping the gas pedal slightly when driving off to prevent myself from stalling. I've done valve clearances done point gap, it's timed correctly and I've also checked for exhaust leaks and haven't found one (when I cup my hand over carb, engine dies immediately). Oh and also it's not the carb to my knowledge as that has recently had an overhaul :s So what on earth could it be? I thought it might be the fuel pump but surely the engine wouldn't run at all? It idles sweet and once you get it up to 4th it goes okay.
Here's one more baffling fact, the problem is intermittent, usually when I set off it doesn't hesitate at all, only after a while of driving it gets bad!
Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
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hotsam Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2015 Posts: 366 Location: Ashburn, VA
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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Could be a vacuum leak, a bad condenser, or the distributer not advancing properly. _________________ 1968 Beetle |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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If it's only happening after the engine is warmed up, you might check that the fuel pump pushrod guide sleeve is not expanding inside the pump stand causing the rod to catch on it.
Link
Link
_________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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Also you said the carburetor had recently been overhauled, please also check to make sure the float hinge pin inside the float bowl was oriented correctly- the curved part of the pin faces the FRONT of the car. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Uberchin Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2018 Posts: 26 Location: San Antonio, Florida
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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When you say the carb was 'overhauled', who did it, was it the basic kit? Ensure the throttle shaft isn't leaking vacuum at the bushings. Use starter fluid to spray around the carb and manifold seals to check for leaks. Also, was the accerator pump passages cleaned out; required by removing the two small BBs. |
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sebdaneb07 Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2017 Posts: 30 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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sb001 wrote: |
Also you said the carburetor had recently been overhauled, please also check to make sure the float hinge pin inside the float bowl was oriented correctly- the curved part of the pin faces the FRONT of the car. |
Is this what you are talking about being the right way round? |
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sebdaneb07 Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2017 Posts: 30 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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hotsam wrote: |
Could be a vacuum leak, a bad condenser, or the distributer not advancing properly. |
I've checked for this by sucking air through the vacuum line to the distributor and the distributor does move and stays how it should and I've also replaced the condenser with no change - but how would one know if the distributor is not advancing properly? I don't want to just buy another distributor to find out if you see what I mean. |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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sebdaneb07 wrote: |
Is this what you are talking about being the right way round? |
Yes, that positioning is correct. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15985 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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Please ID your carb make/model# and your distributor model#?
Also confirm your ignition timing?
Could it be the "infamous" 34Pict + "009" combo?
This "mash up" is often the cause of massive hesitation on acceleration from idle. In many cases it is NOT possible to "tune" the problem away since these two were never meant to work together.... just saying _________________ AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Mark Evans Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004 Posts: 1931 Location: Alsea,Oregon
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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sebdaneb07 wrote: |
hotsam wrote: |
Could be a vacuum leak, a bad condenser, or the distributer not advancing properly. |
I've checked for this by sucking air through the vacuum line to the distributor and the distributor does move and stays how it should and I've also replaced the condenser with no change - but how would one know if the distributor is not advancing properly? I don't want to just buy another distributor to find out if you see what I mean. |
Using a timing light, watch for your advance as you rev it up. _________________ '63 Ragtop |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4025 Location: WA
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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Check (with motor off) by looking down carb bore and slowly open the throttle, the accelerator pump should start squirting gas as soon as you start and continue till open. If it starts late, move the adjuster on linkage toward +. |
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sebdaneb07 Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2017 Posts: 30 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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ashman40 wrote: |
Please ID your carb make/model# and your distributor model#?
Also confirm your ignition timing?
Could it be the "infamous" 34Pict + "009" combo?
This "mash up" is often the cause of massive hesitation on acceleration from idle. In many cases it is NOT possible to "tune" the problem away since these two were never meant to work together.... just saying |
I have heard of this combo and thankfully I don't have an 009 as I've heard they have horrible flat spots. I've got an original distributor from the 1200 engine with part number 043 905 205 K - couldn't find a lot about this distributor online but from what I've found I take it to be the 'stock' distributor VW put on their 1200 engines during '71. I've static timed it to 10BTDC. My carb is a Solex H30/31 PICT. |
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sebdaneb07 Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2017 Posts: 30 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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Starbucket wrote: |
Check (with motor off) by looking down carb bore and slowly open the throttle, the accelerator pump should start squirting gas as soon as you start and continue till open. If it starts late, move the adjuster on linkage toward +. |
Ah thanks I haven't tried this, what adjuster do you mean? (Don't know the names of the parts of the carb)
Thank you |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4025 Location: WA
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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sebdaneb07 wrote: |
Starbucket wrote: |
Check (with motor off) by looking down carb bore and slowly open the throttle, the accelerator pump should start squirting gas as soon as you start and continue till open. If it starts late, move the adjuster on linkage toward +. |
Ah thanks I haven't tried this, what adjuster do you mean? (Don't know the names of the parts of the carb)
Thank you
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Follow the linkage down to the throttle shaft. On yours I think it's under the bowl. |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15985 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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sebdaneb07 wrote: |
I have heard of this combo and thankfully I don't have an 009 as I've heard they have horrible flat spots.
I've got an original distributor from the 1200 engine with part number 043 905 205 K - couldn't find a lot about this distributor online but from what I've found I take it to be the 'stock' distributor VW put on their 1200 engines during '71. I've static timed it to 10BTDC. My carb is a Solex H30/31 PICT. |
I found it listed in the Tune Up parts list (near the bottom of the first page):
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/Bosch_Tune_Up_Parts/Bosch_Tune_Up_Parts.pdf
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0 231 170 186 | 043905205K | 1970s - 1980s non-US T1 |
It shows the replacement part#s but no spec for timing.
As suggested above, connect a strobe timing light and make sure the timing advances as the rpms increase. Then, disconnect and plug the vacuum hose and see if it makes a difference as you rev the engine again. If the timing increases ONLY while the vacuum is connected then you have a SVA/SVSA distributor. If the timing still increases while the vacuum hose is disconnected then you have a mechanical advance that increases with engine rpms and your vacuum advance supplements this... you have an SVDA distributor. Another way to check for mechanical advance is to twist the rotor by hand and make sure it springs back.
With your H30/31 carb...
If you have an SVA/SVSA, connect your vacuum advance hose to port "A".
If you have an SVDA, connect your vacuum hose to port "D".
See if that makes a difference in off-idle acceleration. _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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sebdaneb07 Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2017 Posts: 30 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:12 am Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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Starbucket wrote: |
Check (with motor off) by looking down carb bore and slowly open the throttle, the accelerator pump should start squirting gas as soon as you start and continue till open. If it starts late, move the adjuster on linkage toward +. |
So are you saying this jet should squirt as soon as I pull the throttle lever and all the way through as I pull the lever? Because it starts squirting after I've pulled the throttle lever out half way!? |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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sebdaneb07 wrote: |
So are you saying this jet should squirt as soon as I pull the throttle lever and all the way through as I pull the lever? Because it starts squirting after I've pulled the throttle lever out half way!? |
Yes that nozzle should start to squirt fuel as soon as you pull the throttle arm (or depress the accelerator pedal.)
If there is a lag before it starts squirting, that's probably the accelerator pump linkage needing to be adjusted as mentioned in another post above.
Here you go:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531249 _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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hotsam Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2015 Posts: 366 Location: Ashburn, VA
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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Quote: |
Using a timing light, watch for your advance as you rev it up. |
Exactly this.
I was having similar hesitation and backfires - I tried to time it and it just danced all over the place. For a while I thought my timing light was broken.
I put in a refurbished DVDA and it was instantly fixed. _________________ 1968 Beetle |
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sebdaneb07 Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2017 Posts: 30 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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sb001 wrote: |
sebdaneb07 wrote: |
So are you saying this jet should squirt as soon as I pull the throttle lever and all the way through as I pull the lever? Because it starts squirting after I've pulled the throttle lever out half way!? |
Yes that nozzle should start to squirt fuel as soon as you pull the throttle arm (or depress the accelerator pedal.)
If there is a lag before it starts squirting, that's probably the accelerator pump linkage needing to be adjusted as mentioned in another post above.
Here you go:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531249 |
Great! Thanks for the help think I've fixed the issue now, it now squirts as soon as I pull the throttle arm while I was at it I also sanded down the fuel pump plastic base a bit as it was stuck in there like it was glued in - now it just slides in better to be safe than sorry |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Strange VW beetle hesitation |
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sebdaneb07 wrote: |
sb001 wrote: |
sebdaneb07 wrote: |
So are you saying this jet should squirt as soon as I pull the throttle lever and all the way through as I pull the lever? Because it starts squirting after I've pulled the throttle lever out half way!? |
Yes that nozzle should start to squirt fuel as soon as you pull the throttle arm (or depress the accelerator pedal.)
If there is a lag before it starts squirting, that's probably the accelerator pump linkage needing to be adjusted as mentioned in another post above.
Here you go:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531249 |
Great! Thanks for the help think I've fixed the issue now, it now squirts as soon as I pull the throttle arm while I was at it I also sanded down the fuel pump plastic base a bit as it was stuck in there like it was glued in - now it just slides in better to be safe than sorry |
Hopefully one or both of these helped- take it for a spin and report back! _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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