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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20275 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
cdennisg wrote: |
TDCTDI wrote: |
While the van may not have brought much as crush weight, I would argue that provenance alone would have made it worth more than $950, why else would someone travel 1900 miles to steal it? Lots of cars fetch far more than similar vehicles just because of where it was seen or who it was owned by.
California laws definitely seem designed to allow vehicles confiscation. NC automatically classifies auto theft as a felony status regardless of value. |
I thought the same thing. Besides, who determines the "$950" value? Is it the scrapyard. Kelly Blue Book, an enthusiast...? |
What value was assessed by California for tax purposes? If the couple was having to pay annual taxes on an arbitrary amount that the state assesses upon the vehicle then the vehicle is automatically worth that. NC assesses all antique vehicles at $5,000, regardless of value or condition, this is great for someone that owns a $900,000 car, not so much for the guy that owns a $1,500 VW. |
Tax purposes in 1980? Or if it were assessed now? It has been out of the system long enough that taxes have not been collected for 35 years or so. That section of code is pretty vague. _________________ nothing |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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I’m just curious as to what California would assess the value of that year/make/model van at. Each state has its own rules but some states tax the cars annually & the assigned value is non-negotiable regardless of condition.
If California, for tax purposes, assigns a value of $1,800 to that vehicle, & the owner is required to pay tax on that amount, then I would argue that a person that steals said vehicle would be stealing something above the $950 amount that bumps the crime from petty larceny (a misdemeanor) of vehicle to grand larceny of vehicle (a felony).
Here is the value that my state assesses my 1970 Karmann Ghia at...
If they're taxing me on a value of $5,000, of which I cannot contest, I absolutely would not let some thieving POS get a lesser sentence because the crush weight was $150. (Which is not an issue because NC classifies ALL auto thefts as grand larceny of motor vehicle. (Which is another reason not to f*&# with cars with no titles in this state.).). _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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LoneRat Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2018 Posts: 1 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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Someone mentioned that the vin numbers may have been changed. I know a friend of Chris Carter's and I actually spoke with Chris on one occasion. The friend says the vin numbers were changed with the second "donor" van. I do not believe Chris told my friend he was doing it to be shady, but I think that is the case.Why would a person do that if there was no issue with the title?
I think Chris feels that he has established ownership through the way he titled the Wild Cherry Van, but I don't believe it will stand in court, especially with photographic proof that the van was on the owner's land and Chris just showed up and took it.
Switching the vin speaks of theft, however, Chris clearly documented the land where he found the van. So if he were trying to cover his trail, he has completely provided evidence of where the van was "abandoned." It proves that the van was on the property of the owners. The law does not state that if the title lapses a vehicle is up for grabs. That is complete garbage. Plus, what if the van had been stolen and abandoned? Chris made no attempt to find any owner. I do not believe Chris wanted to find the owner.
Chris Carter thought he could go get a famous van for free and that is exactly what he did. He didn't have any money to buy the van and he just took it and he has justified his actions and tried to wrangle the title into his name.
I am not sure how a person is able to abandon a vehicle on their own property. IMHO, it really doesn't matter if the owners intended to restore it or they left it to rot. It is theirs. People who say they didn't love it and Chris did, they didn't value it, they weren't going to restore it, etc. So what? So what? That is a value call, a judgement on someone who doesn't wish to restore the van. Who knows, they might have eventually restored it. Maybe not. Certainly to lose a cabin in a wildfire, maybe it was a hard thing to face a beloved vehicle in disrepair and they may have intended to restore it at some point. Maybe after a horrible fire they felt sad at the loss of what the van once meant to them. It doesn't matter what the owners motive in calling the police, to get the van back, to get money whatever. It was theirs, it was on their land. Some have judged them, thinking that they intended to let it sit there forever, but it was theirs, that is their right to do whatever with their own prpperty. People have a right to do whatever with their own property even if others disagree.
Do you want someone to steal your car because they will restore it better than you would? Because they love it more? NO. Why the owners are being judged is beyond me. So what if they want money for their van? It actually seems like they just want it back. Who wouldn't want their property back if it had been stolen? Are they supposed to give it away cause people other than Chris put a lot of money into it? They did not give it away, I would be so angry - as would anyone. Why shouldn't they call the police? Just how are their actions unjustified? People who accuse them of just wanting money, I really don't know that the case and if so why not? Do you give your van away for free, especially unwillingly? Plus to have it paraded into California as if they have no rights to their own van.
Chris' whole innocent act is pretty stupid if you ask me. Why didn't Chris try to explain to the owners, ask for their cooperation, or try to buy the van? Because it was no mistake or accident. And likely because he has an arrogant confidence in how he handled the title.
Somehow Chris found the van, he found the son of the original owner. He was pretty handy at figuring out how to title it, but he couldn't trace the owner through the registration records? The previous owner's son, he did find him. That was possible. But not the actual owners.
And he found the land using google maps, but he couldn't take that same information to find out the ownership of the land?
Chris asked no one for permission to take the van. If you read the narrative, nowhere does it say he tried to make sure it was ok to take the van. He did not ask the man who opened the gate to let him pass, or the police officer, or anybody, "Hey do you own this van? Do you know who does?" Yet he showed up with equipment, ready to remove the van. There is information on Facebook already about how he washed the title in Florida. So if he was so confident the van was abandoned, why work the title through Florida?
One more thing to consider, Chris could have recreated the Wild Cherry Van using another van, anybody decent body shop could have. He knew that getting the actual Wild Cherry Van would get him attention. Chris has built a brand and a business around it. Chris didn't just get some junked out van and make it beautiful. He wanted the Wild Cherry Van because the Wild Cherry Van is VALUABLE. He has been working social media, Go Fund Me, and he is angling to get on tv as a builder. So while I have briefly spoken with Chris and he seems like a personable man, his actions are not that of an honest man.
Again, it confounds me as to why Chris would cover his tracks some ways and totally expose the caper in other ways. It is very telling that when the original owners came to light, he avoided speaking with the police and he made no apology or offer to pay the value of the van, even a minimal amount for it's original state. Chris isn't saying he made an innocent mistake, he is saying that the way he has it titled makes it his. Does that sound like an honest person?
I think if Chris truly felt the van was abandoned and he came to it honestly, there would have been an apology to the owners. What I saw was a photo of him flanked by two police officers, flipping off the camera. I find that attitude indefensible. On the other hand, Chris has achieved the notoriety he so desperately sought. |
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lonotch Samba Padrino
Joined: August 28, 2004 Posts: 3304 Location: So. Cal. Oceanside GFK!
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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It was stolen plan and simple, give it back or put it up for auction and let whomever bid on it including Chris, then give the proceeds to the rightful owner. _________________ It's not about the window, it's about the people.
German Folks |
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my59 Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2003 Posts: 3793 Location: connecting the dots
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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Is the skeevy thieving peckerhead in jail yet? _________________ my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget. |
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cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20275 Location: Sandpoint, ID
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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LoneRat wrote: |
Chris has achieved the notoriety he so desperately sought. |
Helluva first post! Welcome to the Samba. _________________ nothing |
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Onceler Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010 Posts: 1647 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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It blows my mind that this guy would risk everything for what I assume is not really a whole lot of financial gain on his part. It's not like he could retire on the the sale of this obscure piece of Americana (the pictures show only a mild interest). And then to try and build a reputation as a restorer on shaky legal grounds? _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia |
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Zeen Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004 Posts: 1308 Location: The Sunny Part of Michigan
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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I agree with the consensus that the van was technically stolen, but I'm a bit more sympathetic to the perpetrator. It reminds me of the countless sad stories told on this site about attempts to rescue a vehicle from the hands of a hoarder who insists he will restore it "someday", while it deteriorates into a pile of scrap. The way he was so public about the whole process indicates he never thought anyone would miss it, and he thought he was doing a great thing by rescuing it from ruin.
But for goodness sake, at least make an attempt to contact the landowner and inquire about obtaining it legitimately. It could have turned out that it really had been ditched there, and the landowner would be happy to have it removed. Or even if they loved it, they would be happy to sell it to someone who would restore it and get it back on the road. But we'll never know. My prediction is the owner will get the van back with a free restoration, and the charges will be dropped. _________________ The consequences of your decisions should not be confused with fate. |
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j-sou Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2004 Posts: 241 Location: Fresno
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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Edit- prob more photoshopped bs
Last edited by j-sou on Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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my59 Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2003 Posts: 3793 Location: connecting the dots
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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Maybe he didnt screw with the vin, and leaves the old missing title in the glove box, the keys in the ignition, the original plates on it, and vanishes into the night.
Wonder who is gonna unlock the gate this time? _________________ my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget. |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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my59 wrote: |
Maybe he didnt screw with the vin, and leaves the old missing title in the glove box, the keys in the ignition, the original plates on it, and vanishes into the night.
Wonder who is gonna unlock the gate this time? |
Or maybe, this is where the van inexplicably disappears or commits spontaneous combustion. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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jwp67 Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2012 Posts: 657
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
my59 wrote: |
Maybe he didnt screw with the vin, and leaves the old missing title in the glove box, the keys in the ignition, the original plates on it, and vanishes into the night.
Wonder who is gonna unlock the gate this time? |
Or maybe, this is where the van inexplicably disappears or commits spontaneous combustion. |
Why tow the van? Isn’t it restored, doesn’t it drive? I agree, it does sound fishy _________________ 21 million of these cars were built,and everyone of them were sold...kinda astounding given how unreliable they are.---johhnypan |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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Maybe this is where a buddy's (Or fellow "concerned enthusiast's") tow company picks it up, charges outrageous towing charges & storage fees, then applies for the title to satisfy those fees & then it comes up with a clean title, "To save the van". _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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lonotch Samba Padrino
Joined: August 28, 2004 Posts: 3304 Location: So. Cal. Oceanside GFK!
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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jwp67 wrote: |
TDCTDI wrote: |
my59 wrote: |
Maybe he didnt screw with the vin, and leaves the old missing title in the glove box, the keys in the ignition, the original plates on it, and vanishes into the night.
Wonder who is gonna unlock the gate this time? |
Or maybe, this is where the van inexplicably disappears or commits spontaneous combustion. |
Why tow the van? Isn’t it restored, doesn’t it drive? I agree, it does sound fishy |
How else do you get back home? _________________ It's not about the window, it's about the people.
German Folks |
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jwp67 Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2012 Posts: 657
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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Ummmm, maybe have someone follow you? _________________ 21 million of these cars were built,and everyone of them were sold...kinda astounding given how unreliable they are.---johhnypan |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12467
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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lonotch wrote: |
jwp67 wrote: |
TDCTDI wrote: |
my59 wrote: |
Maybe he didnt screw with the vin, and leaves the old missing title in the glove box, the keys in the ignition, the original plates on it, and vanishes into the night.
Wonder who is gonna unlock the gate this time? |
Or maybe, this is where the van inexplicably disappears or commits spontaneous combustion. |
Why tow the van? Isn’t it restored, doesn’t it drive? I agree, it does sound fishy |
How else do you get back home? |
Maybe fly on one them there aero planes. |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69820 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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jwp67 wrote: |
TDCTDI wrote: |
my59 wrote: |
Maybe he didnt screw with the vin, and leaves the old missing title in the glove box, the keys in the ignition, the original plates on it, and vanishes into the night.
Wonder who is gonna unlock the gate this time? |
Or maybe, this is where the van inexplicably disappears or commits spontaneous combustion. |
Why tow the van? Isn’t it restored, doesn’t it drive? I agree, it does sound fishy |
I wouldn't drive it on the off chance something happened like it got hit along the way.
I'm with TDCTDI though.
This sounds like a "It got stolen off the trailer after my tow vehicle broke down" situation to me. Ooops! _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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ach60 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2001 Posts: 4139 Location: Santa Maria
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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Stupid is, as Stupid does.
Yes the Van is stolen, and the guy was stupid to waste his time and money to steal it.
Yes it's stupid to leave something you value to rot into the ground.
EVERY BARN FIND, IS A STORY OF NEGLECT.
I sure as hell wouldn't return to California with it! _________________ Good Luck
Al |
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B Ramsey Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2006 Posts: 477 Location: Ramona ca.
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Wild Cherry Van |
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They arrested him at his divorce hearing. It looks like they’re extraditing him to California.
https://www.bnd.com/news/local/article219478880.html _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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