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Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:02 am    Post subject: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

I've been putting this rear brake refresh off as I don't want to mess with the huge hub nut and my rear bearings are silent and tight.

So I went at it and figured out you can do it with a bit of fiddling. Follow the Bentley steps, then when they want you to take off the return springs, leave the double upper return springs to last.

Start with the non emergency brake shoe. Pull or pry the lower end of the shoe out of it's holder slots and pull this end outboard (toward you) of the hub lip. That will allow enough reduced tension to pull the upper end out the shoe out of its holder slots. Then use the bottom of the shoe to rotate the shoe 90 degrees so it gives enough slack to remove the upper return spring. Pay attention as you'll do this in reverse with new shoes.

Doug
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B.O.B.Wanders
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

Thanks for having the presence of mind to capture the "secret steps". I've done it twice now with hubs on and I'm usually so flustered and tired by the time I'm done, I can't remember what I did to get those dang springs on/off.

"Grunt, grunt, <expletive>, grunt, Ow!, <expletive>, <expletive>, grunt..."
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

....picsoritdidn’thappen
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
....picsoritdidn’thappen

I often replace the brakes with the hub in place if I have no reason to service the bearings Confused Pretty easy, having the hub out of the way is just easier.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

a brake spring hook tool helps a great deal in there
Wilmar W86557 Brake Spring Hook
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

I've replaced the rear brakes quite a few times with hub in place. It's never struck me as difficult enough to be noteworthy. I guess my one tip would be needle nose vice grips. Grab the straight part of the springs just beyond the hook. Pull into place.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

Hard to replace the outer wheel seals without pulling the hubs. If you have driven enough miles to have worn out a set of shoes, replacing the outer wheel seal just makes sense. Once you get up into the 200+K mileage range replacing the inner seals isn't a bad idea either.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

I use side cutters to pull brake springs. I watched a tech slip with a pair of needle nose pliers and stabbed his lip. That sight cured me.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

I have an old pair of vice grips whose jaws are worn smooth that I like to use for doing the spring. The smooth jaws don't dig into and potentially weaken the springs.
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jlrftype7
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
I've replaced the rear brakes quite a few times with hub in place. It's never struck me as difficult enough to be noteworthy. I guess my one tip would be needle nose vice grips. Grab the straight part of the springs just beyond the hook. Pull into place.


yes,^^^^^^^^^^.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
I use side cutters to pull brake springs. I watched a tech slip with a pair of needle nose pliers and stabbed his lip. That sight cured me.


To be clear, I said needle nose vice grips, not needle nose pliers. I also always angle the point away from the direction I am pulling, common sense and all.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

The hub has a cut away on it. IIRC, positioning it at ~ 12:00 helped with re-install of adjuster rod et al.

Neil.

cut away I refer to

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handjammer
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

I did rear brakes with hub on. My trick was this Harbor Freight $13 spring tool: https://www.harborfreight.com/drum-brake-spring-pliers-kit-3-pc-63640.html.
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

Funny but I have never ever taken the hub off to do rear brakes... did not even occur to me that I would want to. Laughing Laughing
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Jake de Villiers
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
Funny but I have never ever taken the hub off to do rear brakes... did not even occur to me that I would want to. Laughing Laughing

Its your age, Dave!! And mine, too...

I have my father's ancient Craftsman drum brake combination tool and have used it in conjunction with small Vise Grips, needle nose and otherwise, on drum brake systems from the forties on up.

Its a difficult but rewarding task.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

Thanks Neil,

?Waldo? wrote:
I've replaced the rear brakes quite a few times with hub in place. It's never struck me as difficult enough to be noteworthy.


If ?Waldo? abilities with regards to vanagon mechanics is the forum standard, then there is no routine maintenance that needs a post, a searchable subject, or any discussion whatsoever.

We've said it over and over again, most of the people who buy a 30 year old vehicle should consider dabblling in mechanikking, learn the buzzwords, buy some tools, etc etc etc. And with that we need to lower the barriers with pics whenever possible.

JMHO....

You fellers can challenge the need for pics and it's not "wrong" - in fact the newbie should conclude that the job not needing pics is simple thus "doable" and consider taking it on. Wink
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
Funny but I have never ever taken the hub off to do rear brakes... did not even occur to me that I would want to. Laughing Laughing


I don't find removing the hub to be a formidable task, I would rather do that than deal with removing a rusty drum from the hub. Wink Plus as I said above the outer wheel seal needs occasional replacing and while the seal is out I can add a bit of fresh grease to the bearings.
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

The first hub in place experience for me was on my 1971 and 72 Busses.

I recall it was easy to assemble the shoes and brake hardware, then just lever the shoes on to the posts using a stiff bar with a 5:1 advantage, using the center hub as pivot

After they were in place, then the cups and springs washer went on
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
The first hub in place experience for me was on my 1971 and 72 Busses.

I recall it was easy to assemble the shoes and brake hardware, then just lever the shoes on to the posts using a stiff bar with a 5:1 advantage, using the center hub as pivot

After they were in place, then the cups and springs washer went on


I drove and maintained a '71 bus for 22 years before I moved into Vanagons 20 years ago. Somehow I never removed the hub unless I was replacing the wheel bearings, which I did once in those 305,00 miles on that '71. Never had a seal go bad except for that time at the Bronx zoo.

And I agree that pics are worth a thousand words for those that need to learn this stuff.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. Reply with quote

X8 on not pulling hub for brake shoes. Truthfully it never occured to me to do that. The only time I have ever pulled the hubs is for bearing replacement. Certainly it would be easier to do the shoe job, but not mandatory. Its kinda like pulling engine to do the head gaskets, sure its easier, but can be done with it in place
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