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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10239 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:02 am Post subject: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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I've been putting this rear brake refresh off as I don't want to mess with the huge hub nut and my rear bearings are silent and tight.
So I went at it and figured out you can do it with a bit of fiddling. Follow the Bentley steps, then when they want you to take off the return springs, leave the double upper return springs to last.
Start with the non emergency brake shoe. Pull or pry the lower end of the shoe out of it's holder slots and pull this end outboard (toward you) of the hub lip. That will allow enough reduced tension to pull the upper end out the shoe out of its holder slots. Then use the bottom of the shoe to rotate the shoe 90 degrees so it gives enough slack to remove the upper return spring. Pay attention as you'll do this in reverse with new shoes.
Doug _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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B.O.B.Wanders Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2014 Posts: 351 Location: Atlanta, GA USA
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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Thanks for having the presence of mind to capture the "secret steps". I've done it twice now with hubs on and I'm usually so flustered and tired by the time I'm done, I can't remember what I did to get those dang springs on/off.
"Grunt, grunt, <expletive>, grunt, Ow!, <expletive>, <expletive>, grunt..." _________________ 83.5 WBX 2WD Assuan Brown Westy, B.O.B.
"It feels good to be lost in the right direction” - unknown |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9521 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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....picsoritdidn’thappen _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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syncrodoka Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005 Posts: 11998 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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Sodo wrote: |
....picsoritdidn’thappen |
I often replace the brakes with the hub in place if I have no reason to service the bearings Pretty easy, having the hub out of the way is just easier. |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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a brake spring hook tool helps a great deal in there
Wilmar W86557 Brake Spring Hook
_________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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I've replaced the rear brakes quite a few times with hub in place. It's never struck me as difficult enough to be noteworthy. I guess my one tip would be needle nose vice grips. Grab the straight part of the springs just beyond the hook. Pull into place. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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Hard to replace the outer wheel seals without pulling the hubs. If you have driven enough miles to have worn out a set of shoes, replacing the outer wheel seal just makes sense. Once you get up into the 200+K mileage range replacing the inner seals isn't a bad idea either. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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I use side cutters to pull brake springs. I watched a tech slip with a pair of needle nose pliers and stabbed his lip. That sight cured me. _________________ ☮️ |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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I have an old pair of vice grips whose jaws are worn smooth that I like to use for doing the spring. The smooth jaws don't dig into and potentially weaken the springs. |
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jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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?Waldo? wrote: |
I've replaced the rear brakes quite a few times with hub in place. It's never struck me as difficult enough to be noteworthy. I guess my one tip would be needle nose vice grips. Grab the straight part of the springs just beyond the hook. Pull into place. |
yes,^^^^^^^^^^. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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?Waldo? Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006 Posts: 9752 Location: Where?
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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MarkWard wrote: |
I use side cutters to pull brake springs. I watched a tech slip with a pair of needle nose pliers and stabbed his lip. That sight cured me. |
To be clear, I said needle nose vice grips, not needle nose pliers. I also always angle the point away from the direction I am pulling, common sense and all. |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10347 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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The hub has a cut away on it. IIRC, positioning it at ~ 12:00 helped with re-install of adjuster rod et al.
Neil.
cut away I refer to
_________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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handjammer Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2018 Posts: 44 Location: Seattle
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16474 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Jake de Villiers Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 5911 Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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dobryan wrote: |
Funny but I have never ever taken the hub off to do rear brakes... did not even occur to me that I would want to. |
Its your age, Dave!! And mine, too...
I have my father's ancient Craftsman drum brake combination tool and have used it in conjunction with small Vise Grips, needle nose and otherwise, on drum brake systems from the forties on up.
Its a difficult but rewarding task. _________________ '84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9521 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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Thanks Neil,
?Waldo? wrote: |
I've replaced the rear brakes quite a few times with hub in place. It's never struck me as difficult enough to be noteworthy. |
If ?Waldo? abilities with regards to vanagon mechanics is the forum standard, then there is no routine maintenance that needs a post, a searchable subject, or any discussion whatsoever.
We've said it over and over again, most of the people who buy a 30 year old vehicle should consider dabblling in mechanikking, learn the buzzwords, buy some tools, etc etc etc. And with that we need to lower the barriers with pics whenever possible.
JMHO....
You fellers can challenge the need for pics and it's not "wrong" - in fact the newbie should conclude that the job not needing pics is simple thus "doable" and consider taking it on. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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dobryan wrote: |
Funny but I have never ever taken the hub off to do rear brakes... did not even occur to me that I would want to. |
I don't find removing the hub to be a formidable task, I would rather do that than deal with removing a rusty drum from the hub. Plus as I said above the outer wheel seal needs occasional replacing and while the seal is out I can add a bit of fresh grease to the bearings. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22573 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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The first hub in place experience for me was on my 1971 and 72 Busses.
I recall it was easy to assemble the shoes and brake hardware, then just lever the shoes on to the posts using a stiff bar with a 5:1 advantage, using the center hub as pivot
After they were in place, then the cups and springs washer went on _________________ .ssS! |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16474 Location: Brookeville, MD
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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Abscate wrote: |
The first hub in place experience for me was on my 1971 and 72 Busses.
I recall it was easy to assemble the shoes and brake hardware, then just lever the shoes on to the posts using a stiff bar with a 5:1 advantage, using the center hub as pivot
After they were in place, then the cups and springs washer went on |
I drove and maintained a '71 bus for 22 years before I moved into Vanagons 20 years ago. Somehow I never removed the hub unless I was replacing the wheel bearings, which I did once in those 305,00 miles on that '71. Never had a seal go bad except for that time at the Bronx zoo.
And I agree that pics are worth a thousand words for those that need to learn this stuff. _________________ Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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candyman Samba Trout Slayer
Joined: December 20, 2003 Posts: 2694 Location: Missoula MT
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing rear brake shoes with hub on. |
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X8 on not pulling hub for brake shoes. Truthfully it never occured to me to do that. The only time I have ever pulled the hubs is for bearing replacement. Certainly it would be easier to do the shoe job, but not mandatory. Its kinda like pulling engine to do the head gaskets, sure its easier, but can be done with it in place |
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