My son's new 69/72 baja build- we'll bee needing help

[jeepsterryan]

My son started asking if he could get a baja about 3 months ago. I told him to save half which actually meant he saved up what he could until he couldn't wait anymore and talked a guy into selling him the bug for the amount he had available. After talking mom into it, this is what we ended up with:

I grew up fixing/modding jeeps, but I know nothing about VWs. I originally posted on the 68 and up thread and they promptly kicked me out to come and talk to you all:)

Here's the list of what's been done (that we know of):

• 1969 body on a 1972 pan
  
• 6in wider front beam with 10in coil over towers
  
• Coil over fox shocks front
  
• Rack and pinion steering
  
• Jamar front brakes Disc
  
• 3 ribbed bus transmissions
  
• Carpet Kit
  
• Roll cage (in car, but not bolted to pan)
  
• Corbeau seats with 5 pt harness
  
• 22 gal fuel cell
  
• New window seals
  
• Custom roof rack with 4 hid lights and a spare tire rack
  

Here is what's first on our list to do right away:

• Wiring is a fire waiting to happen. Tore it all out and ordered a new painless harness.
  
• Install headlights, tailights, and blinkers so we can get it street legal (all in a box of parts with purchase).
  

Then, before Christmas

• Get the roll cage bolted down.
  
• Vehicle came with 3x4 rear trailing arms, CNC disc brakes, and new 10" coil over fox shocks. Need to get them all installed as soon as we get the cage bolted down.
  
• Body lift
  

Long term - we'll see what the wallet can handle

I've already spent way too much time reading through posts on thesamba and I've solved quite a few mysteries with this one already. But, there are some lingering questions:

1. What motor do we have. The 72 vin says 1600 dual port and I think that is probably correct. There are no numbers stamped below the generator mount, so I really have no idea. Is there any other way to tell other than pulling the motor and having a look inside?

2. Is the carburetor the stock carb. I've looked around on the forum and elsewhere and I think it is not, but I want to know what it is so that I can find some info on adjusting it.

3. When I throw on the 3x4 trailing arms will I need new CV shafts? (I've tried to search this, but because I'm not sure what's already on the car and I don't have a good handle on the various type I/II parts combos anyway, I'm having trouble making sense of it all)

4. Also, when installing the arms, the pictures I've seen in the gallery make it look like the outer mount is just a heim joint with a bolt/mounting plate that goes where the torsion bar used to be. Is that a bracket I can buy somewhere, or do I just need to fabricate it?

5. Lastly, I'm not sure if the 6" front beam also has extended trailing arms. What is the stock trailing arm length center to center? Mine are about 8".

Ok, enough random questions. Hopefully once I get some of these basic answers we can turn this into a progress thread instead of a question an answer session. Thanks in advance for your help.

carb/engine

The trailing arms

The current CVs

[Busstom]

Hahahaaa, kicked you out, huh?

Well, I'm not an off-road guy, but I can answer a few of your questions, which may get you going on some further research while the true off-roaders respond to some other stuff. I'm actually new in the HBB threads, I come from the Bus and Bug worlds.

So on your engine, yes, the only real way to know what the displacement is is to take it apart. It could be a 1600, or really anything else, for that matter. A common (simple) upgrade is to up the size of the cylinders but leave the stroke stock, which could then yield a 1641, a 1776, an 1835, and so on. But most likely, you do have a stock 1600 in it (that's a presumption, mainly cuz it doesn't look like the PO put a bunch of money into it).

There's something funky going on with your fuel pump: where a stock fuel pump would be, it almost looks like the PO mounted an electric fuel pump there...unorthodox to say the least. The pics aren't exactly clear enough to confirm such, but that's what it looks like to me. If so, there are way better places to put it (up front under the gas tank is a common place). Usually they are "pushers," not pullers, so closer to the tank with gravity feed is one reason.

Which brings us to the carb: no, not stock, that's a center-mount single Weber, a two-barrel, as you have likely noticed, and probably 40 or 44 mm. Without preheat, they're known to be stubborn on cold mornings (it's got no preheat).

Pics of the front trailing arms would help.

On the rears, those are set up for the heim pivots, and they do sell kits to slap on where the rear torsion bars are capped, check Kartek, Pacific Customs, etc. just to get an idea. But if you do that, you'll be needing to fab some method of attaching coilovers to the arms, as there are no provisions on those examples, yet. And unless you put them low, like the stock ones, then I believe you'll have to fab and raise the upper mounts, else you won't have room for the height of the shocks.

It looks like you have a later Bus transaxle in there, which could be a good thing...try to dig in and see which one, do some research on 002, 091 trannies (3 rib, 5 rib, etc., there's a few...and so it's got at least Type 2 CVs, which are bigger diameter and greater angle if I'm not mistaken. You can go huge with Porsche 930 CVs too, so take some measurements and google up that stuff, there are dimensions and diagrams online illustrating the sizes and allowable operating angles. You'll need longer axles with the 3 x 4 arms, it's kind of a can of worms, so I'd focus on about a hundred other things before tackling the 3 x 4 swap....that's just me. Investigate the oil cooler situation, get the power train and wiring all sorted before digging in to fab work.

[jeepsterryan]

I should have said kicked me out after being extremely helpful.

It's funny how you can Google trying to find answers, but if you don't know the correct terms Google just gives you the run around. Literally just before you posted I finally found the same Weber idf carb online and answered my own question. Same with the helm kits.

I appreciate the input. It has no preheat and it does not like to start cold. Any solutions to that other than just getting a different carb?

We aren't jumping into the trailing arms for a while. I just wanted to get some of the correct search terms. Plus, to mount the 10" Fox shocks we'll be cutting into the cab and attaching to the tower (which is not currently bolted down). So, it's a project for later.

The fuel pump is electric and it seems to work fine where it's at. It seems like it is actually destined to go there. Ie, the mounting bracket also acts as a cover for the mechanical pump opening. I'll have to see if I can find any numbers on it and track down the manufacturer.

Of the 100 other areas to focus on what would be your top 3? I've got some of the basics, but being new to this vw hobby are there any basic things that are going to bite me if I don't take care of them out of the gate?

[Dark Earth]

Welcome to the obsession

It looks like you have a Bus transmission with stock Bug trailing arms. To use the other arms, you'll need a full roll cage to mount the upper shock mounts.

Here's a pretty useful link …

http://blindchickenracing.com/How_to/CVJoints_Axles/axles_and_cvs.htm
_________________
My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version

~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~

[YDBD]

For heating the manifold you could get the heat riser tubes that will fit in the holes below the manifold and change the header to one that has heat riser mounts.

Unfortunately it won't make that much difference for cold starts as it takes a while for the manifold to get warm and it's fighting against the gas and air mixing which drops the temp. The carb and manifold are a lot of metal to warm up.

The other possibility would be to change the air filter style to a covered one that has a pre heater hose that would pick up hot air from under the pistons. Kinda like this one:

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don't live in the past...but when I did:
'67 bug
'64 baja
'60 dune buggy
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[jeepsterryan]

YDBD - you read my mind. I was just searching the forums for preheat tube advice. The cold start isn't as big of an issue as just not running correctly. Sunday night we took it for a spin around the block around 10pm. It was close to 50 degrees out and it was running really poorly. I wonder if that lack or preheat was the issue. Even if it wasn't, it sounds like I need ad pre-heat to the top of the to do list.

Dark Earth - thanks for the welcome! I can tell that this is likely going to turn into an unhealthy obsession, but me and the boys sure are going to have a lot of fun! Thanks for the link on the CVs. It answered all of my questions instantly. I love topic focused summary pages like that one.

[jeepsterryan]

YDBD - are these the holes you are referring to? I have access to a full shop. I wonder if I could get the riser tubes and weld a flange on to my current header. I'll look into it.

[Busstom]

[YDBD]

The holes on the bottom of the red manifold center body in this pic:

[jeepsterryan]

Busstom - That is a great short list. Most of that was on my to do list, so seems like we're starting out right. Plus, all of that will be great for letting my son get familiar with his rig and how it all works.

The front end does need grease, knuckles totally wiggle on the king pins, the alignment is way off, the drag link ends wiggle in the knuckles. So, pulling that thing out, giving it a thorough once over and putting it back in are at the top of the list. Probably this weekend.

[jeepsterryan]

YDBD - This post has all the information one could want about heat risers.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=333608&highlight=manifold+heat+header

Riser flange at header on #2 and the other flange routed to the collector.

Thanks for pointing me in that direction. I think I'll probably just modify my current headers and add the heat riser flanges. Can anyone think of a reason not to use this stainless flexible tubing clamped to small 5/8" tubes on the header and intakes?

http://www.bennettbuilt.com/shop/Muffler_Accessori...58_ID.html

[jeepsterryan]

So I'm still trying to get some information together so we can plan where we are going with this build. Does anyone know who manufactured this widened front end (pics below)? I've searched every buggy site that I can find online and I don't see anything similar anywhere.

I've tried to read up on this, but I think I'm not using the right search terms. Are the trailing arms extended on this front end (they measure 8" center to center)? If they are extended, do I need to extend the beetle frame a couple of inches to move the axle forward?

Lastly, I've included images of the rack and pinion that was installed. You have to be Hercules to steer it. I have some things I want to look into to fix it, but I figured I'd post here and see if there was some obvious "know" reason for it.

Is it the angle of the drag links? It seems pretty extreme and is wasting some of the leverage busing "back" on the knuckles instead of out. I could space the steering box back an inch or two.

Is it the length of the steering arms on the knuckles? I could cut them off and weld on longer versions. They need to be modified anyway because they get in the way of the brake caliper mounting bolts. In fact, I'm not even sure how they got the caliper bolt to go in on the passenger's side.

I'm sure this is something I'll just have to sort out on my own, but your insights are appreciated.

The widened front end:

The trailing arms:

The Steering:

[TDCTDI]

It's too hard on the tools to cut it, its too thin to weld, & the exhaust is too hot for JB Weld.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[Busstom]

Those inner heim joints look bone dry and crispy.

Disconnect both tie rods and the steering shaft from the rack so that you can isolate the binding. The grease inside the steering rack could be hard and gummed up. You should be able to grasp the coupling and turn the bare rack by hand...if not, it's gummed, cuz it should turn very smoothly. If necessary, you can disassemble it, inspect the gears, regrease and reassemble.

Take those monster meats off and swivel the spindles by hand. If they're binding, try lubing and then check for play. If they continue to bind, you may be in need of new king pins and bushings.

Everything should move easily by hand, so if you isolate everything and check one by one, you can identify where the resistance is.

[TDCTDI]

How much did y'all pay for this? There's probably $3,000-$4,000 just in the front suspension, steering, & brakes.\

But those beam stiffeners are sketchy at best.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[L5wolvesf]

I don't see a hose clamp on the fuel line where it attaches to the carb.
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[jeepsterryan]

TDCTDI - $2,800. I told my son he had to save half. He got sick of saving his pennies and decided it might be quicker to just negotiate like a madman and reduce the price. In the end, the seller said yes and he got a screaming deal. The beam stiffeners and and other custom fan on this thing are all sketchy. There are loose bolts everywhere. We'll get it all done up right.

L5wolvesf - I read somewhere that's how VW did it from the factory. We're just leaving that part stock:) kidding. We'll get it clamped down as part of the pre launch overhaul.

Busstom - I'll check all of that this weekend and report back. I'm hoping it is something simple.

[cbeck]

Call dan at dans performamce parts. Very helpful. Looks like basic performance parts.
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[TDCTDI]

That's a great deal, congratulations! Good news, he's not as likely to rack up a lot of traffic violations, bad news, you might get a bunch of calls from Park rangers, & US Forestry officers (& they're on the federal level).
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[Busstom]

An often overlooked item you'll want for your heims...
https://www.kartek.com/parts/rod-end-protective-ru...r-nhb.html