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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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 Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Hot Rod your '69 & keep the '63 stock for your 1500 Club membership. |
My plan is to get the 63 back to stock,(even contacted the previous owner to see if he might still have the stock wheels) but if the stock motor should go down it is nice to know that the type IV would fit. In order to keep the car at 6v, I think I could machine a breaker that would hold the stock generator in the alternators location. Then all that would be required is to extend the wires and I would be back cruising while rebuilding the stock motor.
Here the start of the cleanup. Haven’t blasted the air cleaner yet as I am looking for the factory decal. If it isn’t available, I will have to try to have one made.
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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| Also, does anyone know if the early cars came with a black fuel pump cover? All the reference pics I have show it in white? |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69813
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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I think the black is a replacement fuel pump thing?
I've seen those before on eBay in the past
All the original ones I've seen are white/off white/sort of yellowy
NOS pumps
I've seen 2 different NOS "white" covers though.
The ones that are sort of see-through above and one that is more white/opaque.
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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Thank you sir. On the hunt for the correct one. Also here is a pic of the car with the stock wheels, might be good to add to the technical section
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EverettB
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69813
Location: Phoenix Metro
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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| EverettB wrote: |
Sounds good on the wheel color.
Thanks for thinking of that.
Can you post a nice clear straight on photo of them? |
So far that is the only pic I have been able to find of the car with the stock wheels. Just got in touch with another previous owner, hopefully he knows where the wheels are. |
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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| One of the previous owners thinks they may have been bug wheels, which leads me to the question, October of 62 build should have smoothies correct? |
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EverettB
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69813
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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| Jason37 wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
Sounds good on the wheel color.
Thanks for thinking of that.
Can you post a nice clear straight on photo of them? |
So far that is the only pic I have been able to find of the car with the stock wheels. Just got in touch with another previous owner, hopefully he knows where the wheels are. |
Got it - I didn't ralized it was an older photo
| Jason37 wrote: |
| One of the previous owners thinks they may have been bug wheels, which leads me to the question, October of 62 build should have smoothies correct? |
No, they should be slotted
Example
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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Well I finally got all the engine tin cleaned. The amount of oxidation and rust leads me to believe this motor was once under water.
However did find a powder in California that looks like they can handle this. My local guy is more industrial based, so good for cast suspension parts, but not the guy (his words) for this type of job. |
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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Well, I dug out the cylinders, heads and carbs to see if it would fit. Besides some trimming of the sheet metal, it looks like it would work. And having it in the car while the stock motor is on the stand sure beats having it on the floor for my partially blind ass to trip over.
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:59 am Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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Uh, oh.. Don’t let that sit there for too long.. 
Seriously, though, that Type4 wouldn’t be right for that early original car.
If I can admit that anyone can, right?
WRT the pitted tins,
That’s pretty common, unfortunately.
If you’re going that far, you’ll want those filled somehow, right?
Powder by itself only fills so much,
So there’s either powder primer, JB Weld, Metal-2-Metal or..?
Has to be some kind of heat-resistant filler,
And sanded down to even things out.
Because the tin has so many odd shapes,
And any of those fillers are no fun to sand,
It’s going to take some work to get things looking spot-on before coating.
Especially with black (even flat or semi-gloss).
My strategy would be first to take that tin to a big heavy-duty sandblaster type to get that last tiny bit from the bottom of those pits.
It’s that fusking last little tidbit in the very bottom of a pit that will grow and pop up thru again one day..
Because you got them 97 3/4% clean already it shouldn’t take/cost much.
Then use a THIN coat of Metal-2-Metal ONLY in the pits so you don’t have to sand it much.
It should then be good to powder coat..
Many powder coaters like/insist that they do the blasting,
So they get the tooth right and the powder sticks.
Maybe your coater can do the blasting?
I can speak from experience that prep is crucial for powder.
Anyways, there’s a couple of different powder coat people around these parts,
One is a large/industrial type, and the other is a small specialty bike/auto guy,
Who has a pretty small oven.
They both do different kinds of work, so what your guy says is right.
(The specialty guy here does nice nice work but costs an absolute fortune)
If you can get your industrial guy to do the blasting,
Lightly Fill/sand yourself,
And promise not to bitch if it goes wrong,
Bet you could get those tins perfect for the driver/resto that you got there..
Doing bodywork/paint/gloss/clear/color-sand/buff is for show cars with lights and mirrors underneath.
Same with those wizard specialty/artist guys..
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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Rattle can everything gray & black to mimic the original finishes.
Keep it simple to touch up yourself when needed.
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
Rattle can everything gray & black to mimic the original finishes.
Keep it simple to touch up yourself when needed.
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At this point in my life I know I would never be happy and would end up pulling it out and redoing it. I have spent the morning going through all my tin, five sets of it to select the best parts. Sadly, I only have one 6 volt alloy shroud and it is as rough as the original. No other early single port tins, so those will have to be dealt with. The outer shroud is the easiest, as I have three decent late model ones to modify to mimic the early. |
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Uh, oh.. Don’t let that sit there for too long..
Seriously, though, that Type4 wouldn’t be right for that early original car.
If I can admit that anyone can, right?
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Who even are you? It’s like we don’t know you anymore...
But I do agree, it would be wrong and it won’t be there for long. I need to pull the tranny to fix some leaks. While the transaxle is out, I was going to take the spring plates to the U blast place and throw all my tin in with it. They have both cabinets and outside pressure units. I will opt for their cabinet as the units outside will chew through that tin. The California powder company does exceptional work, just waiting on a rough quote. |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Rattle can everything |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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| Jason37 wrote: |
At this point in my life I know I would never be happy and would end up pulling it out and redoing it. I have spent the morning going through all my tin, five sets of it to select the best parts. Sadly, I only have one 6 volt alloy shroud and it is as rough as the original. No other early single port tins, so those will have to be dealt with. The outer shroud is the easiest, as I have three decent late model ones to modify to mimic the early. |
I do have to agree with Steve, have the tin industrial blasted. Get that last little bit of rust out of the pits. Only then can you really expect any top coat finish to last. If you don't, it'll come back to haunt you.
I'd fill the pitted metal with either All metal, or metal 2 metal filler (to me they are virtually the same, just different makers), and then epoxy prime and paint with a 2 part clear coat, so it'll be fuel resistant. Another option would be powder coat it, then paint and clear over the powder coat. I only say that after watching Steve remove the thin powder coat off his heat exchangers and other items. It doesn't seem very thick, and it doesn't look like it'll fill anything deep.
As for the mag shroud, fill the pits with All metal, or metal to metal, then have it powder coated silver. Put it on thin, and spread it out evenly. If you can't powder coat it, prime it with gray epoxy and paint it silver and clear coat it.
I'd never rattle can anything in or on the engine, because I know it'll just flake off or peel off. BTDT before.
Also, if you use PPG's epoxy primer (DP series), that stuff is pretty tough against heat, as I've shot it on heat exchangers and on stock mufflers with decent success (only burn thru spots (well blackened anyway)) are right where the front pipes (cyl 1 & 3) exit into a stock muffler and throw the heat directly to the back wall of the muffler, just like what happens in a stock painted muffler set up up. I've compared it with an NOS muffler that was painted, and got similar results, but it also took longer on the epoxy coated muffler. The green-gray primer (and can be tinted more gray if need) looks a lot like the stock color of a new muffler too.
Just something to keep in mind.
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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Thank you guys. I am hoping to get to the blasters this week (just because I couldn’t be bothered to do it when the weather was warm) but in the meantime I started to clean up the case to pull the heads for a little inspection.
After considerable amounts of scrubbing with a tooth brush, wire brush, brake clean, wire wheel, nylon wheel and handful of picks, the case is finally clean enough to not have to worry about the dirt getting in when taking it apart.
The cylinders measured out to 85.5 and show very litttle wear, just a slight carbon ridge at the top. Was going to replace them and the pistons, but see no need to waste money. New rings, quick hone and lap them into the heads is all this calls for. Did some checking up on the markings on the cylinders and they are old Cofap’s from Brazil.
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:47 am Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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Wow. Nice exterior detail job on that motor!
That's a LOT of little fiddly nit-picking to get it that clean..
Cofaps are the good stuff nowadays, since all we have is AA, and AA branded as Cima..
Cleaning those up will likely get you even better results than new.
You're going to split the case?
I couldn't resist doing so at that point.
It would kill me to not know if a rod was on upside-down, or a bearing scored or..?
Even stockers should have the rods balanced, right?
Just make sure the lifters stay in their specific hole..
Bet you get lucky and find nice stuff in there.
Should only need a gasket set..
*touches wood*.
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KTPhil
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Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:52 am Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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What are the odds?
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Jason37
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: 63 Birchgreen notch |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
What are the odds?
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What do you think the odds are of having three Birchgreen titled threads take over the Samba... |
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