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1974, 412 Variant Wagon - looking for tips
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The Dubbernaut
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: 1974, 412 Variant Wagon - looking for tips Reply with quote

Howdy everyone!

Poking around the 411/412 page for a week trying to find as much info as I can about the 412 wagons. I found a 1 (family) owner 412 in a field of cars on a hike and its in really great shape! I wanted to post in here for some tips on where to look for issues, rust, and anything else I should be concerned about. Am I correct in understanding these do NOT have a pan like a bug, but a unibody type floor?

He is wanting $650 for the car.
It has a title.
The engine and trans were dropped together and sat in the field behind the car for roughly 12 years. All tins, wires, and engine bits were there from what I could tell.
The car looks like its buried but looking around, the ground under the car is actually 8 or so inches below the pan/floor.
Tires are studded and gnarly but original rims in decent condition with all 4 hub caps.
Roof rack is SOLID and the only trim missing is front drivers quarter panel.
Doors, hatch, and bonnet lid are in good shape with working latches and zero signs of water leakage into the cabin.
All windows are intact.
All seats and upholstery are there and in decent "field car" condition.
The only place I noticed a rats nest was in 1 corner of the trunk. Other than that the carpet in the trunk and engine deck were in great condition!
Dash didnt have any cracks or breaks, from what I can remember.

I am headed back out to get the car up off the ground so I can see the floor better, from under the car. The front, driver side panel, right behind the front wheel well does have visual rust starting to show through the paint. Size of a silver dollar? Other than all the details, it seemed to me like it was in awesome shape for not being a daily driver! Couple questions for you 412-timers...

1. Other than the motor turning over (which I forgot to check) what am I looking for with the auto trans or engine? Any "tests" I can do while its out on the ground? Ill flip it over a bit to see how bad the bottom is oxidized.
2. Any hidden rust areas on these to poke with a sharp stick?
3. I hate to say this but would $650 get me a decent "parts car" to help everyone else out, and make a small profit to fund more bay parts?

Zunk

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titan3c
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1974, 412 Variant Wagon - looking for tips Reply with quote

Yes it is a unibody. No pan like other air cooled vw's. The car looks like a good candidate for restoring if one has the resources to do so. As for you question about using it as a parts car. That's a tough call---It would be a good parts car, but how it would turn out financially is a good question. I think I would make an offer to get it as low cost as possible. One of the problems for those of us who need parts they are priced way to high generally. So it becomes somewhat of a marketing study. For me personally I would buy the windshield immediately if I could figure out how to get it here to Oklahoma, and it was a reasonable price. The person who could really give you some suggestions about what to look for on the car is Ray Greenwood, and he possibly will respond to your post.
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The Dubbernaut
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: 1974, 412 Variant Wagon - looking for tips Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Yes it is a unibody. No pan like other air cooled vw's. The car looks like a good candidate for restoring if one has the resources to do so. As for you question about using it as a parts car. That's a tough call---It would be a good parts car, but how it would turn out financially is a good question. I think I would make an offer to get it as low cost as possible. One of the problems for those of us who need parts they are priced way to high generally. So it becomes somewhat of a marketing study. For me personally I would buy the windshield immediately if I could figure out how to get it here to Oklahoma, and it was a reasonable price. The person who could really give you some suggestions about what to look for on the car is Ray Greenwood, and he possibly will respond to your post.


Thanks for the reply! I noticed he was a little bit of a guru in this forum and was waiting on what he would say.

My “chop shop” idea was more so if the car was too far gone in critical hidden areas that it couldn’t be restored. My overall want for this is to drive it! I love the odd look it has and from all the info I’ve read, it drives really smooth too.

Unless it turns out the floor or strut towers are absolutely toast, I will be picking it up and trying to get it back on the road!
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: 1974, 412 Variant Wagon - looking for tips Reply with quote

The Dubbernaut wrote:
titan3c wrote:
Yes it is a unibody. No pan like other air cooled vw's. The car looks like a good candidate for restoring if one has the resources to do so. As for you question about using it as a parts car. That's a tough call---It would be a good parts car, but how it would turn out financially is a good question. I think I would make an offer to get it as low cost as possible. One of the problems for those of us who need parts they are priced way to high generally. So it becomes somewhat of a marketing study. For me personally I would buy the windshield immediately if I could figure out how to get it here to Oklahoma, and it was a reasonable price. The person who could really give you some suggestions about what to look for on the car is Ray Greenwood, and he possibly will respond to your post.


Thanks for the reply! I noticed he was a little bit of a guru in this forum and was waiting on what he would say.

My “chop shop” idea was more so if the car was too far gone in critical hidden areas that it couldn’t be restored. My overall want for this is to drive it! I love the odd look it has and from all the info I’ve read, it drives really smooth too.

Unless it turns out the floor or strut towers are absolutely toast, I will be picking it up and trying to get it back on the road!


Sorry for the delay. I was in the process of moving this month. My landlord sold the house out from underneath me and only gave me 30 days notice.

So in my busiest business month or the year...I had to put most of work on hold (had to tell my clients I was booked...so no income)....and reassemble my 412 enough to trailer, disassemble to garage workshop...disassemble my darkroom and client/work workshop and my engine/car workshop area...plus the rest of the house and put most of it in storage except the 1.8L build. Rolling Eyes

Anyway....

So...it looks like a pretty complete and straight car. That being said....this is not going to be your average..."find it in a field...slap in an engine....and clean it up and drive it vehicle"....if you want it and its hard to find parts to survive.

DO NOT cut it up for a parts car. It will be eons before you get your money back...and...there are actually enough used type 4 parts out there and they are too expensive which is why they are all on the market and not moving. Cutting that up helps no one.

So...starting with the engine. I wonder why they removed the drivetrain package?

This would have come with a 1.8L with L-jet fuel injection. Pretty good system, though the engine was de-tuned and ran a little warmed to meet emissions. It had marginally more HP than the 1.7L. All of the 411/412 engines had extensive sheet metal and trunking to be able to fit in and hook up to the cooling air inlet and intake.
You want to start with finding all of the rubber and plastic bits and conserving them for the moment. If you want to run injection again....look around for the wiring harness and ECU.

So....if you want to be able to conserve parts and do less damage.....DO NOT make the mistake of trying to start the engine. Just pull the plugs...squirt in some penetrating oil...turn it over by hand to see if its not locked up.

Too many people do this to barn and field finds. That fine if you are looking at a beetle engine....whose parts can be replaced....but not for a type 4. After 12 years and not knowing what condition it was left in....and rust on rings etc....what "may" have been a good engine for a quick re-hone, clean up and new rings....my now need to have new main bearings, new cylinders or pistons etc. Have you tried to find a good set of pistons and cylinders in 1.8L size theses days?

Its worth a two day strip down to assess.

Then drain the oil and inspect for water/condensation in the oil. Bet there will be some.

The auto trans will need a seal kit before using and check to make sure the modulator valve is there and not bent or broken. You will need to drain and clean teh fuel tank....get a new fuel pump...and a new fuel pressure regulator. Do not even screw with the old pump and regulator after sitting 12 years.

The body...looks straight. Thats a bonus. You have the normal rear fender are rust near the chrome trim. This can be fixed fairly simply if its not too advanced.

The front fenders need to come off....there will be a rust through on both sides right down in the bottom corner. The fender itself is hard to fix it its too advanced.
The body rust through behind that spot will go into the forward heater channel. I just finished fixing the right hand side of mine in August. After doing this one I came to the conclusion that for the pain in the but where it is....that I will not be trying to cut and weld the one on the left.

There is no way to get behind it with a backing spoon and its just not structural. It needs to have the rust removed or neutralized and them be permanently sealed and that is enough. I will post pictures of the process of what I did on the right side this month.

There will be rust in the floor boards around the edges of the tar boards. It happens to all of these cars that sit still. They leak and water pools under the carpet. If they are just small rust through holes....do not try to replace whole floorboard sections. If you just have areas rusted through that are 1" of smaller....just grind away the rust and undercoating from the outside...and weld in small flat patches to seal up. grind smooth and re-undercoat.

There will be rust between the fender welting and fender and firewall and fender welting on the front end. You will have lots of fine pin-holing. The front sheet metal in these areas is to thin to weld even with a great MIG and just about only with TIG...and even then its tough.

Its really cosmetic sheet metal....and was designed to crumple during an accident. The sheet metal is less than .030" thick in some areas.
Wire wheel the rust away....neutralize with Ospho or similar and then seal the pin holes with a thick rust killer paint like MasterCoat permanent rust sealer...just with a brush....then undercoat it. It will outlive you. Laughing

You will need to rebuild teh front suspension. Its not hard...but the word here is strip, clean, new struts and bushings (which you will need to make)...and strip and clean the ball joints and install grease fittings and gaskets so they live for a long time...because they are no longer made.

$650 is a great deal for what is there....if its not a basket case in the floor pan. Ray
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974, 412 Variant Wagon - looking for tips Reply with quote

Funny, I saw this car advertised as well, and was considering running out to look at it for a road trip. I hope someone snags it and puts it to use. He answered my interest question by mentioning where the engine has been for 12 years. Laying in a field. Yeesh. That's thousands of rainstorms, hundreds of snowstorms and sun. With a hood over it an aged stationary engine gets issues. But sitting out in the weather like that it will be a lump of useless metal. Every plastic bit destroyed. Every cable rusted in its housing. Every delicate swivel and pivot rusted solid. Bummer.

When I see things like that, it makes me crazy. Why not slide the engine into a barn? Back in the car? It's the same feeling when I see an old car on a bike ride and go look at it. Beautiful interior, but they left a galvanized bucket of rocks on the driver's seat and it's permanently damaged. Or a car with manual crank windows sitting with a window down for a decade. Really? You couldn't have cranked up the window 15 years ago? In Montana?

Anyhow, its a great looking body and caused me to cruise over here from the Vanagon forum to see what you guys and gals are doing. What a great looking machine you folks are keeping on the highways and byways. Those quad headlamps and that great looking rump are really distinctive. Thanks.
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19super73
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: 1974, 412 Variant Wagon - looking for tips Reply with quote

They really mounted the newer type of roof rack far back on the '74's...

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1974 412 Variant
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