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Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail
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francoangellini
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

Hi:

I`m installing a couple Rancho RS 9000 (rubber standard eye to eye) rear long shocks on my SWING AXLE rail, but the extra camber it is complicating the job ...Many shock mount kits work with 90º, but stock shocks mount work in 45º (spring plate)...... In the referential web picture appear both bolts mounts upper and lower in different angles....Then for better performance two shock mounts bolts must be installed in 45º?

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Best regards


Last edited by francoangellini on Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:31 am; edited 11 times in total
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weasel_ugs
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Long shocks in a swing axle rear suspension Reply with quote

The heim joint style mounting on the top allows movement in both directions
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francoangellini
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Long shocks in a swing axle rear suspension Reply with quote

weasel_ugs wrote:
The heim joint style mounting on the top allows movement in both directions


ok...But I will install eye/eye Rancho 9000...Edited!!
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bigfatloser
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

The new shock can twist so the eyes are perpendicular to each other.
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francoangellini
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

......The swing axle shock mounts that sell in the market have the inferior bolt in the same rear axle direction .... I suppose that in the upper part for a eye to eye shock it is installed in the same direction?
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B Ramsey
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

Do your rancho shocks have coil springs?
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francoangellini
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

B Ramsey wrote:
Do your rancho shocks have coil springs?


No........RS9000XL

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I need advice for the shock mounts bolt position in a swing axle type rail...

In the web appear different alternatives, but different bolt position!!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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B Ramsey
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

What are you using for springs? that setup does not have torsion bars. just changing the shocks to Ranchos is going to be a letdown.

and, you can rotate the shock absorber shaft so the bushing is wherever you want it.
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francoangellini
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

B Ramsey wrote:
What are you using for springs? that setup does not have torsion bars. just changing the shocks to Ranchos is going to be a letdown.

and, you can rotate the shock absorber shaft so the bushing is wherever you want it.


Stock type1 torsion bars, and adjustable shocks (not coil overs) just want a better control and performance....


Last edited by francoangellini on Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:27 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

How are you going to add a torsion housing to that mid engine set up? I think you would be better off using coil overs if you want to get rid of the air shocks.
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B Ramsey
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:26 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

francoangellini wrote:
B Ramsey wrote:
What are you using for springs? that setup does not have torsion bars. just changing the shocks to Ranchos is going to be a letdown.

and, you can rotate the shock absorber shaft so the bushing is wherever you want it.


Stock type1 torsion bars, and adjustable shocks (not coil overs) for better control and performance....


Yeah, ok. Good luck.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

Hi Franco:

Richard write this words in another topic...

"You could add a pair of 1/4" thick (6mm) shock mount tabs on top of the bearing housing between the spring plate flange and the back plate flange for double shear shock mounts. They should put the shock mount bolt at about 45° to the spring plate. Then mounts on the frame rail above would be good. Shocks should have at LEAST 8" travel, 9-10" would be better. The swing axle rear suspension pivots at the inner end of the axle tube and where the spring plate mounts to the torsion bar, which is about a 45° angle, and that is why the shock mount bolts at both ends of the shocks should be mounted at that same angle. Make sure the shock will not bottom or top out before the spring plate does". ....

This is all you need!!

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8903255#8903255

Saludos
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

Not to change the subject but isn't that engine and trans backwards?
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francoangellini
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

liquidrush wrote:
Not to change the subject but isn't that engine and trans backwards?


No, the rail picture in the topic just a referencial!!...My rail stock engine position..
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

liquidrush wrote:
Not to change the subject but isn't that engine and trans backwards?


Yes, with a dual side cover Type 1 transmission, you can convert the rear engine set up to a mid engine layout for better balance for hill climbing, etc. all you have to do is flip the ring gear and rest backlash in the ring and pinion.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

This is the angle at which they are mounted on a springplate. With heim ends it might not be neccesary, but rubber mounted eyelet shocks you should maintain this angle. These pics show heim but it was originally set up for bushing shocks and heim end shocks added later. Pics show sway a way springplates the way it was done 40 some odd years ago. Now we would use double shear mounts over the end casting. These shock mounts held up this long without bending or cracking so maybe double shear not even neccesary on a sand rail. This was on 2400lb Baja bugs using swingaxle in the early years.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

francoangellini wrote:
liquidrush wrote:
Not to change the subject but isn't that engine and trans backwards?


No, the rail picture in the topic just a referencial!!...My rail stock engine position..


Just for ease of responding (less confusion) from others you might use pictures of actual situation not pictures that are not actually the situation you are dealing with....

Dale
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francoangellini
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

oldschool5er wrote:
This is the angle at which they are mounted on a springplate. With heim ends it might not be neccesary, but rubber mounted eyelet shocks you should maintain this angle. These pics show heim but it was originally set up for bushing shocks and heim end shocks added later. Pics show sway a way springplates the way it was done 40 some odd years ago. Now we would use double shear mounts over the end casting. These shock mounts held up this long without bending or cracking so maybe double shear not even neccesary on a sand rail. This was on 2400lb Baja bugs using swingaxle in the early years.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


thanks.....I suppose that in the upper part the same angle?
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francoangellini
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:
francoangellini wrote:
liquidrush wrote:
Not to change the subject but isn't that engine and trans backwards?


No, the rail picture in the topic just a referencial!!...My rail stock engine position..


Just for ease of responding (less confusion) from others you might use pictures of actual situation not pictures that are not actually the situation you are dealing with....

Dale


I understand, but my photos do not show anything since the shocks have not yet been installed !!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear Long shocks mounts installation in a swing axle sand rail Reply with quote

francoangellini wrote:


thanks.....I suppose that in the upper part the same angle?


Yes, the same angle at the upper mount.
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