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AA pistons still not very good
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modok
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:59 pm    Post subject: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

So I'm an idiot. Even though I already know these things are shady I ordered another set of 92b pistons. Same deal.
The top rings are still the soft pose-able material.
Skirts are still .001" too big, even though the size is marked on top, they aren't that size.
Then I realize the pistons pins aren't cut square. yeah that's right the ends aren't 90 degrees. The worst one .006 runout on the end. I ground them square. So the pins are 2.480-2.487 length.
I check the pin end play in the piston, I have .016-.030 in the pistons with the longest pin, it's supposed to be less than .016"
What the heck am I going to do???
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fastone
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:08 am    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

Stock up on old school cima's ? :)
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modok
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

I've been doing that. Wink

AA's c-clips are .040 thick, empi ones that are .045, and they kinda fit in there, that improves it somewhat.
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Zed999
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:19 am    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

My cheapest type available AA 104's came with a chrome top ring which has sealed really well. I guess it's lucky dip with AA which is a shame as some of their stuff seems pretty good
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bugguy1967
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:45 am    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

Wonder what would happened if you shimmed them.

I guess you could always machine down some std pins to the length you need.
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modok
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

yeah replacing the pins seems most reasonable
Another choice is machine for double clips.

For now I... will probably put them back in the box and let them age a few years. Strange stuff.
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

Well, not especially good. On the other hand, I have seen the same issues with Mahle units apart from the rings though
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nsracing
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

How many times does it take for someone to learn their lessons is beyond me. Laughing

I used them once before when the AAs came out first time at the insistence of someone - cause the parts were sent to me free to try out. I was not impressed when I machined them - pot metal material looked to me then. Never again have I ever used them. There were some I have been sent to balance but they were not mine. I just do as I am told to do w/ the parts.

I love Mahle or CIMAs - that is it! The Brazilian Mahles so far have not changed the quality. I hope they never stop making them.
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Hustlers67
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

Whats the issue with the rings Modok?
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Matthew
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

Are these the slipper skirt pistons? I had the weird rings with my 90.5 slipper skirts.
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vugbug68
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

Just pulled apart my friends engine that started making a noise on decel, (piston slap) they were brand new thick wall 92's, those are #2 and #4, 1 and 3 look fine. This engine couldn't have more than 4000 miles on it. I guess I got lucky with my 94's

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jpaull
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

Regarding the rings being "Pose-able". I had the same issue with one of the AA Piston Pin retaining clips. It was Pose-able also. I could bend it into all kinds of shapes and it had no spring pressure whatsoever.

Scary.
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

why the fuck arnt they just forging them?? dont say china dosent have a forge....of corse it would take a few years to get those right if they started doing that. or they would be 1 forging and machine it for all 3 big bore sizes...94 sure would be heavy.... the forge cranks they forge polenty of chevy pistins, and the new ls& ford shit is small bore...wtf? just another reason to use v8 pistons in our vw's.
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modok
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

Slipper skirt 92
I don't have anything against AA, I'm just reporting the facts.
Piston pins not being square or not fitting the pistons right is a rare enough problem in this century that nobody is looking for it, so, just a heads up.

I don't know why the rings are soft, or if it's good or bad, just very unusual.
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esde
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

mark tucker wrote:
why the fuck arnt they just forging them??.


AA do make forged pistons, in addition to the hyperutectic I have a set here, and am going to look them over shortly. I'll post some pics if anyone is interested. FWIW the price for the AA forged is about the same as the Mahle.
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modok
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

vugbug68 wrote:
Just pulled apart my friends engine that started making a noise on decel, (piston slap) they were brand new thick wall 92's, those are #2 and #4, 1 and 3 look fine. This engine couldn't have more than 4000 miles on it. I guess I got lucky with my 94's

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The fact that the scuffing is heavy on the -edges- means it could have been overheated and/or not enough clearance. Also called "four corner scuffing". Just handy hint. A lot of people they see ANY scuffed piston and assume it was too hot or too tight, but often times that's not the case, tho in this case I'd say it's likely.
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theKbStockpiler
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

Why not ask the seller to send out extra pins or other kit? Makers/distributors of some products ; I don't know if piston kits are like this, ship extra parts with the big order for this reason.

Would the Teflon buttons work?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

theKbStockpiler wrote:

Would the Teflon buttons work?

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Not on slipper skirt pistons. The Teflon buttons would just fall out of the pistons and get chewed up by the spinning mass in the case.
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modok
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

A piston pin is a 10-15 $ part.
The simplest solution is the best one, which would be to make a 2.5" piston pin that is 2.5 inches long. Measure twice cut once? jeez Laughing
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67rustavenger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: AA pistons still not very good Reply with quote

esde wrote:
mark tucker wrote:
why the fuck arnt they just forging them??.


AA do make forged pistons, in addition to the hyperutectic I have a set here, and am going to look them over shortly. I'll post some pics if anyone is interested. FWIW the price for the AA forged is about the same as the Mahle.

esde, Does AA manufacture their own forged pistons?

When I ordered my TW 92's. I was admittedly a little buzzed. Shocked
I ended up ordering, AA TW 92 barrels and JE forged pistons.
When I checked the order the next morning I discovered the error.
Now that I see this thread. I'm glad I fucked up my order.

I did however change the rings for a set of Grant rings. They look exactly like what was on the JE pistons. I wonder if JE pistons come with Grant rings.

When I tore my engine down. I did find light scuffing on one piston. But nothing to cause me to be alarmed.
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