86 Vanagon stuck in 3rd

[JealousJack]

Hey guys,

I’ve been reading through a bunch of the threads and it seems like the 3-4 slider has called it on my transmission. Symptoms are:
Van has suddenly started to get stuck in 3rd. After I replaced my clutch, the gears have been a little harder to find, specifically reverse. A little while ago it was tough gettting into 2nd but for the last few months it’s been easy.
If I shift with the van off, it still gets stuck in 3rd. I can massage and “force” it out, on or off. Could it be the linkage?

I was wondering if there’s a comprehensive enough checklist before I assume it’s the trans.

Now, if it is the transmission- I’m in a bit of a bind here. I actually don’t know if it’s worth it to rebuild it. I’ve spent a bunch of money and properly repaired some major rust and installed a new rocker, new hookups, new rear wheel well, done the clutch, and everything you should do while you’re in there,the axles, clutch pedal assembly, etc to much to list really. It’s running great- a bit rich and the exhaust leaks. Suspension is meh. Could probably use new bushings etc. Camping stuff all works. Needs paint after repairs.
I have the maintenance history since 86 and all of its 396,000 kms.

Anyways- I don’t know how far off an engine rebuild would be, but considering I don’t have any serious problems- im probably good for awhile.

So, is it worth it? I’m basically permanently poor and this is my daily driver. I won’t need it for a month and a half coming up as I’m travelling- but it’s a pretty big investment. What do you think? Keep going down the rabbit hole, or cut my losses?

Seems like a stupid question for this forum, but a couple grand is everything I pretty much everything I have haha.

Thanks in advance!

[dobryan]

Look around and you may find a used trans that can keep
you going until your finances improve.
_________________
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'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

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[DanHoug]

yeah, look around for a used one. keep your eye open for vans sitting in fields, etc.

don't know if this serves CA but can try this too:
http://car-part.com/index.htm
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
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[MarkWard]

Save your money, do a Subaru engine conversion mated to a Subaru transaxle with the flipped ring and pinion. Won't be cheap, but could yield a nicer result. High mileage vanagons from the later years are going to need and engine and transmission overhaul. Unless documented by a reliable reseller, you should pay accordingly.
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[JealousJack]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Do my suggestions sound “textbook” or is there a few things I can rule out before I start hunting?

[MarkWard]

3rd and 4th gear should be the easiest to select regardless of the shift lever adjustment. When adjusted properly, 3rd is straight forward on the shift lever and 4th is straight back. It should require, zero side to side movement to select these two gears.

If you are inclined, disconnect the shift lever at the transmission and see how it shifts in and out of 3rd. You stated something along the lines that when it is stuck in gear, engine off makes no difference. You should feel the same resistance shifting directly at the transmission lever.
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[82westyrabbit]

Ck you’re shifting linkage before you jump to it has a bad transmission. disconnect the shift rod at transmission and shift it by hand. If you can’t move the shifter where it come out of the transmission then you probably need a transmission. If you can then it’s something in the shift linkage. Just start with the easy stuff first. John

[IdahoDoug]

Agree check the shifting with the shifter linkage disconnected to see if you can "find" third and fourth normally. If it gives you static back at the gearbox without the shifter involved, you could confidentially say it's the 3/4 slider.

To confirm, drain the trans through a screen and also see how much metal filings are living on the magnetic drain plug. You might get lucky and see a chunk come out (thus the screen) to confirm the 3/4 slider is cracked.

I'd then be looking for a used manual trans. Seattle/Portland/Vancouver BC are huge Vanagon parts sources via Craigslist, etc. The actual job of swapping the trans is extremely easy compared to other automobiles and I'd think you could find a buddy to help or someone from Samba in the area. I had a young man in my driveway a month ago with a tranny issue and he started at 9am and had the trans out by noon.

So, for a few hundred dollars and a weekend you could be back on the road. I would not invest "rebuild" money vs finding a used gearbox to swap in/out.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[JealousJack]

Hello again!

Well I hadn’t disconnected the linkage yet, however I did replace the tabs on the guides and clean and grease the box. Firstly, all of the bolts holding that thing on were loose, and one was even missing. So that solves my issue of constantly changing shift feel.

It’s still getting stuck in 3rd, but if I shift quick, it comes out. Easier sometimes than others.

I’ve taken the trans out to do the clutch not too long ago and I’m pretty confident I could do it by memory now haha. I’ll dig around for one, but if you guys hear of anybody up here with one, pass em along.

I’ll update when I disconnect the shift linkage.

Cheers!

[Aryana]

Betting it’s your linkage and not the transaxle.

Check the ball and cup at the transaxle end of the linkage. I think you’ll find yours very worn.

[JealousJack]

Quick update:

Just went for a drive and although 3rd was giving a bit of resistance, it shifted every time! Not ruling out trans yet, but I figured I’d keep updating in case somebody ends up with identical symptoms to mine.

J

[Aryana]

Everyone always points to the transaxle as the culprit but in my experience it’s almost always been everything upstream of it.

With one person in the driver seat shifting the van with the engine off, and the other sitting under the right side directly below the shift linkage where it connects to the transaxle, you can inspect your linkage to see if it’s actually working properly.

I tried to explain to a friend who swore his transaxle was failed and sure enough his linkage components wore out and jammed it in gear. The transaxle was fine.

[JealousJack]

I disconnected the shift linkage at the transmission and despite it shifting more or less fine yesterday, it will not shift on the actual trans. It’s also leaking where both axles connect and from the shift level. So, probably should hunt down a used one anyways. Ugh.

Thanks for all your help! I’ll keep ya’ll updated! And let me know if you hear of a decent trans in the PNW. I’m in Vancouver.

Cheers!

[levi]

That is pretty definitive.
Sorry to hear.
What's probably happening is pieces or a piece of the broken hub are separated and moving into/out of position, sometimes blocking movement altogether.
I wouldn't drive it any farther than you're willing to tow it at this point.
As long as a piece hasn't fallen out and wrecked havoc its probably still rebuidable.
The leaks at the axles are common flange seal failures and not a big deal.

I've bought many used trans and it can be a real crapshoot.
It was more worthwhile when they could be found for 175/200, and even then a pain to spend a full day making the swap only to find that the "Shifts good in every gear" tranny wouldn't hold 2nd at all and was sticky going into and out of 3/4.
The above was my last experience at 600 including shipping.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

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[JealousJack]

Thanks Levi,

Yeah sure seems that way. Right now I’m thinking of trying to get one to keep me going and maybe keep the old one around to rebuild in the future when finances get more stable. It’s really too bad- this van hasnt broke down on me in the 3 years I’ve owned it. Plenty of weird stuff and a clutch etc- but man, it just keeps on going. It’s amazing. Alas, it’s time something big happened haha.

I’m def gonna get a tranny jack tho. I just had this sucker out. And yeah it’s a pain.

Installing a new trans- would it be wise to get new CV bolts etc? Change the clutch disc even tho I JUST did it? Would be nice to not be in there for awhile.

[levi]

No need to change the clutch disc.

This will be the perfect time though to clean and grease the CV joints, and replace any of the bolts that might have gouchered up heads.
I'm partial to the triple square but that's just me.
I think it's 33-36 on the torque and retorque after a couple hundred miles.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40

[Aryana]

[tencentlife]

Sounds most likely to be an internal problem but it's always worthwhile to make sure by not skipping any diagnostic steps. Another poster had engagement problems in this thread:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8843070&highlight=#8843070

Thread's worth reading but in particular pay attention to the 2nd paragraph here:

[jcannon]

If it is the slider, and you have time but little money, you can take the tranny out and replace just 3/4 slider.

Folks will argue that it is inefficient to not rebuild the tranny once it is out and technically they are right. Some times, as the old Muir Manual says, you gotta balance the available bread against the immediate mileage requirements.

This only applies if you do the work yourself. I would not pay someone to do the slider only.

I’ve got 2.1 engine out and am going to try replacing the rod bearings and having the rods rebuilt to see if it will fix low oil pressure. If it works for 10000 miles that covers me for 5 to ten years. I don’t drive this van much, so why put 5k into a rebuild?

[JealousJack]

Thanks for all your help everyone. I looked into trying to replace the slider myself and it actually looks to be quite intense. Furthermore, I've scoured the internet in all it's corners and I CANNOT find a used trans anywhere. I recall looking a few months ago and a few were up.

My band is touring the West Coast of the US and all of Canada in November so I'm going to be keeping an eye. I'm posting a wanted ad in those towns and *hopefully something comes up.

So far this seems to be the biggest and most expensive challenge I've come up with. Let me know if you hear of anything- I'd be extremely grateful.