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Fred A Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:17 pm Post subject: Try to date engine and transmission |
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Hello All
First post here Not unfamiliar with air cooled but little confused with VW's way of dating engine's and transmissions I ended up with a fiberglass dune buggy two weeks ago thought it was going to be a slam dunk Got it off the ground pulled all four wheels. Found the rear brakes full of oil or brake fluid. Both were leaking so it doesn't matter going to replace all seals ETC Now the problem I can't get even close to the year. I have spent two weeks reading everything I could about putting a date to the engine and trans. Just when I get close it doesn't add up I tried to order parts but I couldn't answer the question 'What year" 62? 65 ?
So I am hoping someone here has the knowledge to narrow it down even point out to certain identifiers I could use
Thank you for your input
Fred
Engine number 043389 No numbers or letters before or after
Trans number 0073965 No numbers or letter before or after |
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jspbtown Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5152
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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Pics of the engine and number would probably help
Tranny...it usually just matters if it is an IRS or swing |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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Hey Fred . . . welcome to TheSamba!
Be aware that a buggy can have a variety of parts thanks to interchangeability of parts between so many years.
For instance . . . the year of the transaxle can be totally different than the year of your rear brakes! (My '62 Beetle has rear brakes from a '70!)
Show us photos (nice, clear, and close-up) of your rear brakes if that is what you are working on and need to purchase parts for.
Please look at this for posting photos (please do NOT use PhotoBucket!) . . . https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6 _________________ Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador! |
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Fred A Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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I will post pictures Friday there's a skid plate that would stop armor piercing shells I have to move But in the mean time it's a swing arm trans What throws me off is when ordering parts it says what year Instead of this wheel cylinder fits 62 to 65 or 61 to 65 There's nothing more frustrating to me than opening a box of parts you have been waiting for only to find they don't fit and you have to send them back and wait two weeks for it to get sorted out |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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FWIW . . . I buy my Beetle brake parts from Rockauto.com. _________________ Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador! |
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Fred A Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: CA
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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Here's a picture of the rear wheel
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MrGoodtunes Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2012 Posts: 849 Location: South Florida
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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Actually looks pretty good, except for what appears to be a broken spring; the one directly under the wheel cylinder is hook'd onto the left (rearward) shoe, but seems to have no hook to the right (forward) shoe! |
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Fred A Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: CA
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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Yes I saw the broken spring I am still trying to date it What I'm looking for is a way to order parts if someone said "If you call it a 63 you should be OK" or parts for the rear brakes and seals for years 61 to 64 are all the same then I'm good
I just don't want to run into a one year only trans
Thanks
Fred |
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MrGoodtunes Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2012 Posts: 849 Location: South Florida
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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IF it's all Beatle parts, then this should help with knowing which years have same specs:
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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One clue to year may be the brake shoe/adjuster design... One group of years has slots and shoe end straight up and down, and another group of years has them at angle....
Your appear to be straight up and down...
Also the should be a code stamped into transaxle housing on passenger side near differential bearing plate...
Similar to pic below...
Here is part of your quest to put code to year of gearbox...
http://www.vw-resource.com/transaxle.html
And
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658674
And
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=113852
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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57BLITZ Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012 Posts: 2385 Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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With the early wheel bearing retainer, you should have an oil slinger inside yer brake drum . . . like this . . .
For a visual on your brake shoes . . . https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=566363&highlight=brake+shoes
VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
glutamodo resource
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_________________ Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador! |
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Fred A Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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Well I think I found out a lot First the brake shoes look to be straight On the engine numbers I missed an F very faint just to the right of the logo So would that make it a 66 only? and I can't tell if that's a "b" or "d" to the left on the trans or a casting mark but I now see C 0739654 What do the experts think?
Thank you for your reply's
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8687 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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Most fiberglass buggies were built using a single Beetle donor, so I would start with the date for the chassis, then see if the rest of the parts seem to match that year. _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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Fred A Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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If there was or is a chassis number where would I look This was blue tagged in CA |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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Fred A wrote: |
If there was or is a chassis number where would I look This was blue tagged in CA |
Look just ahead of opening for access to shift coupler... See the "VIN" designation on graphic below...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15278 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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Your engine with the VW logo in front of the serial number indicates it is a factory rebuild.
DC was originally a Type III IRS transaxle so if it is now swingaxle it has been rebuilt. Anything could be inside. It may also be possible that you have Type III rear brakes. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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I totally sympathize with you! When ordering parts on line you have to be able to "Pigeon hole" your car into exactly the right boxes. Ordering from a car dealer is worse. The VIN is the only thing that counts there.
After a while we learn what exact car each one of the components on our cars came from in order to get the right bits.
Gone are the days parts guy could look at a part you brought in and know what you need! |
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Fred A Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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Vwracerdave
I have gone thru many sites to check and you are right on the nose the engine being factory rebuild means I have to let that go until I tear it apart. Also I have an IRS trans that has been converted to swing arm I am assuming that was done to work in the chassis of the year of the trailing arm. So now I have to date the swing arm by measuring shoes and cylinders. I am going to look for the vin number as Dale M suggests it might be a clue for the front end But then as everyone points out it could be any year as long as it fits |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15278 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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What are the VW part numbers on the brake drums? How wide are the brake shoes? _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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Fred A Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 17 Location: CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission |
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I had to tear up the carpet which was pretty nice but I found the vin number
3746515 which the samba says about Feb of 1961 so I don't think that is much help
There are no markings on the drums they appear to be after market all it says is Max Dia 231.5
The shoe width is 1.8
I was cleaning up the backing plates and drums It looks like they are from two different years
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