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Try to date engine and transmission
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Fred A
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

Hello All
First post here Not unfamiliar with air cooled but little confused with VW's way of dating engine's and transmissions I ended up with a fiberglass dune buggy two weeks ago thought it was going to be a slam dunk Got it off the ground pulled all four wheels. Found the rear brakes full of oil or brake fluid. Both were leaking so it doesn't matter going to replace all seals ETC Now the problem I can't get even close to the year. I have spent two weeks reading everything I could about putting a date to the engine and trans. Just when I get close it doesn't add up I tried to order parts but I couldn't answer the question 'What year" 62? 65 ?
So I am hoping someone here has the knowledge to narrow it down even point out to certain identifiers I could use
Thank you for your input
Fred
Engine number 043389 No numbers or letters before or after
Trans number 0073965 No numbers or letter before or after
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jspbtown
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

Pics of the engine and number would probably help

Tranny...it usually just matters if it is an IRS or swing
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57BLITZ
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

Hey Fred . . . welcome to TheSamba!

Be aware that a buggy can have a variety of parts thanks to interchangeability of parts between so many years.
For instance . . . the year of the transaxle can be totally different than the year of your rear brakes! (My '62 Beetle has rear brakes from a '70!)
Show us photos (nice, clear, and close-up) of your rear brakes if that is what you are working on and need to purchase parts for.
Please look at this for posting photos (please do NOT use PhotoBucket!) . . . https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6
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Fred A
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

I will post pictures Friday there's a skid plate that would stop armor piercing shells I have to move But in the mean time it's a swing arm trans What throws me off is when ordering parts it says what year Instead of this wheel cylinder fits 62 to 65 or 61 to 65 There's nothing more frustrating to me than opening a box of parts you have been waiting for only to find they don't fit and you have to send them back and wait two weeks for it to get sorted out
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57BLITZ
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

FWIW . . . I buy my Beetle brake parts from Rockauto.com.
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Fred A
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

Here's a picture of the rear wheel
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MrGoodtunes
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

Actually looks pretty good, except for what appears to be a broken spring; the one directly under the wheel cylinder is hook'd onto the left (rearward) shoe, but seems to have no hook to the right (forward) shoe!
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Fred A
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

Yes I saw the broken spring I am still trying to date it What I'm looking for is a way to order parts if someone said "If you call it a 63 you should be OK" or parts for the rear brakes and seals for years 61 to 64 are all the same then I'm good
I just don't want to run into a one year only trans
Thanks
Fred
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MrGoodtunes
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

IF it's all Beatle parts, then this should help with knowing which years have same specs:

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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

One clue to year may be the brake shoe/adjuster design... One group of years has slots and shoe end straight up and down, and another group of years has them at angle....

Your appear to be straight up and down...

Also the should be a code stamped into transaxle housing on passenger side near differential bearing plate...

Similar to pic below...

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Here is part of your quest to put code to year of gearbox...

http://www.vw-resource.com/transaxle.html

And

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658674

And

http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=113852

Dale
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57BLITZ
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

With the early wheel bearing retainer, you should have an oil slinger inside yer brake drum . . . like this . . .
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



For a visual on your brake shoes . . . https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=566363&highlight=brake+shoes
VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
glutamodo resource

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Fred A
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

Well I think I found out a lot First the brake shoes look to be straight On the engine numbers I missed an F very faint just to the right of the logo So would that make it a 66 only? and I can't tell if that's a "b" or "d" to the left on the trans or a casting mark but I now see C 0739654 What do the experts think?
Thank you for your reply's
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Q-Dog
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

Most fiberglass buggies were built using a single Beetle donor, so I would start with the date for the chassis, then see if the rest of the parts seem to match that year.
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Fred A
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

If there was or is a chassis number where would I look This was blue tagged in CA
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

Fred A wrote:
If there was or is a chassis number where would I look This was blue tagged in CA


Look just ahead of opening for access to shift coupler... See the "VIN" designation on graphic below...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dale
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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

Your engine with the VW logo in front of the serial number indicates it is a factory rebuild.

DC was originally a Type III IRS transaxle so if it is now swingaxle it has been rebuilt. Anything could be inside. It may also be possible that you have Type III rear brakes.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:36 am    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

I totally sympathize with you! When ordering parts on line you have to be able to "Pigeon hole" your car into exactly the right boxes. Ordering from a car dealer is worse. The VIN is the only thing that counts there.

After a while we learn what exact car each one of the components on our cars came from in order to get the right bits.


Gone are the days parts guy could look at a part you brought in and know what you need!
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Fred A
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

Vwracerdave
I have gone thru many sites to check and you are right on the nose the engine being factory rebuild means I have to let that go until I tear it apart. Also I have an IRS trans that has been converted to swing arm I am assuming that was done to work in the chassis of the year of the trailing arm. So now I have to date the swing arm by measuring shoes and cylinders. I am going to look for the vin number as Dale M suggests it might be a clue for the front end But then as everyone points out it could be any year as long as it fits
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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

What are the VW part numbers on the brake drums? How wide are the brake shoes?
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Fred A
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Try to date engine and transmission Reply with quote

I had to tear up the carpet which was pretty nice but I found the vin number
3746515 which the samba says about Feb of 1961 so I don't think that is much help
There are no markings on the drums they appear to be after market all it says is Max Dia 231.5
The shoe width is 1.8
I was cleaning up the backing plates and drums It looks like they are from two different years
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