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slowroller70
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2018
Posts: 11
Location: SF Bay
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 Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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Hi All...
I'm trying to figure out what exactly I have engine wise in my relatively new to me 1970 Bus. Cross referencing with my Tom Wilson Engine book...my case is a F1895679 which appears to be a 1300 block that has Dual Port Heads on it with a H30/31 Carb and a 009 Distributor. Aside from pulling the engine and tearing it down to see what I have....are there other ways of determining that the 1300 block was bored out to a 1600 somewhere along the line? I gather from what I've read the original engine for my bus was a 1500 SP...I've been using the bus as a daily driver for the past year and it runs fine with the current carb/distributor combo...but I'm curious if this is the most efficient combo for a daily driver for the long term? Not overly concerned with power....but mostly interested in keeping things stock and efficient....any thoughts out there on this setup and suggestions for improvement?? Thanks for the help! |
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Manfred58sc
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Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 3382
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:59 am Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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An "F" block has more than likely been upgraded to a 1600 sometime in the past. Its an easy conversion. I personally love 1300's with those nice , fat, cylinders that run cool. I had one in my Single Cab and it was great.
Drive and enjoy, it is what it is. Dumping money into dual carbs etc. is not worth the effort in my book.
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16971
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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Several years ago I had a customer buy this 1970 off CL in Las Vegas. She had it delivered to me in San Diego.
It came with an odd ball 1300 dual port that Busdaddy said was installed for the European market.
I told her that we needed to look for the right engine and after a while I found this on the local CL
It was a very low mile engine I was able to buy her for $900. I sold the 1300 and got her some of the money back. Turned out to be a good deal.
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slowroller70
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2018
Posts: 11
Location: SF Bay
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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Thanks for the feedback!
I also like the simpler engines...I ran a 1500 SP in my 64 for years...I actually prefer the SP to the DP....so If we assume the 1300 has been modified to a 1600 with DP heads....when it comes time to do a top end rebuild....would it be possible to replace the DP heads with SP heads? Would they just swap out? Obviously I'd have to change out the manifold and tin...but would that swap work? |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51155
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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Yes, heads, manifold and some tin will make a DP into a SP.
But if it's happy as is why mess with it?, the SP makes a little more bottom end torque but the DP is better on the highway, depends on where you drive and what you like.
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bigbore
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Joined: December 19, 2003
Posts: 3297
Location: Wasilla Alaska
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:48 am Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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Iam always impressed on how the SP pull in the bus's I had a 66 fastback with a factory SP with duel stock carbs it was fast I could out run my friend in has super bug every time and the fastback was heavier.
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slowroller70
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2018
Posts: 11
Location: SF Bay
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| Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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| Agreed...why mess with it if it is happy...I'm looking at pulling the engine soon to replace a leaking rear main seal....and just thought...if it was out and I had the heads, tin and manifold and the bottom end is sound (will run a compression test before any of this)...swapping over to a SP would be nice....thanks for the input on whats needed for the swap out....Hoping to have some time this week to run a compression test and see where we are... |
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slowroller70
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2018
Posts: 11
Location: SF Bay
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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| Good source for rebuilt or rebuildable SP Heads here on the Samba? Any recommendations? |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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| slowroller70 wrote: |
| Good source for rebuilt or rebuildable SP Heads here on the Samba? Any recommendations? |
Are you looking for the unbeatable metallurgy and ruggedness of factory heads, or do you want the 'known history' of new parts? The used single port heads in my bus have over 80,000 miles on them since Adrian @ Headflow Masters reworked them in 2014 or so. Before that, they were sitting outside on a pallet in a junkyard for who knows how long. Before that, they were on a car from West Germany. 
If you want the peace of mind that new aluminum heads can get you, (lack of previous heat cycles means the new heads are less brittle,) there are many companies making dual port heads, but only one or two making good single port heads. I was Very Impressed at the EMPI heads Adrian showed me this year. The castings were flawless, and had no flash or blocked passages like aftermarket heads of old. Mofoco might also have some offerings, and they seem to have great customer service. Call Adrian or Roy to ask them for offerings and prices.
If you want THE BEST that money can buy, Len Hoffman of Hoffman Automotive Machine (HAM) can take new castings and strip them of poor quality parts, thermally coat them, and install the best available parts. It won't be cheap, but they will be the best Type 1 heads in existence. Contact Len and see what the timeline might be; he usually has six sets of Type 4 heads going at any one time, but I think Type 1 heads are special order only.
--
For my engines, I look for factory German heads with NO sign of abuse. This means making sure the spark plug threads are perfect, none of the exhaust/intake studs have pulled out, none of the valve guides are cracked, none of the valve tips are worn, etc. Also ensure that the heads have not been overheated by checking for a black stain (combustion leak) on the fins next to the combustion chamber, look for recessed valves, look for no colors lighter than a slight gold hue in the rocker box; black burnt oil isn't a dealbreaker, but shouldn't be excessive. Check for the VW logo on the intake valve faces as strong evidence that nobody has messed with the heads before. From there, make sure the combustion chambers are roughly the same volume. Also check that the valve sizes match (35mm intake and 32mm exhaust is most common) from head to head. (Smaller engines and fuel-injected 1600's have smaller valves.)
Did you ever get the results of your compression test?
Robbie
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timvw7476
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Joined: June 03, 2013
Posts: 2206
Location: seattle
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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| slowroller70 wrote: |
| Good source for rebuilt or rebuildable SP Heads here on the Samba? Any recommendations? |
AA Pistons part # 311 101 353AK $215.95
^you can always check with people who are using these to see if they are
worth buying. |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16971
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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Too much information Robbie.
I’ve purchased from AA before and had good luck. That said, you should be able to find a machine shop nearby to get your heads done. It’s not like you live in Alaska.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
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slowroller70
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2018
Posts: 11
Location: SF Bay
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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Thanks for all the info!
The rebuildable used SP Heads is the route I was hoping to take...but looking at the price point....I'd have to get them pretty cheap to justify the initial cost of purchase and then having them rebuilt..etc etc. German would be great! Thanks for the link on AA Pistons...I will price it out that way as well and then compare. I haven't gotten around to a compression test...will let you know when I come up with some numbers. Thanks again! |
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slowroller70
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2018
Posts: 11
Location: SF Bay
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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Pulled engine today on my 1300 Frankenblock Dual Port...ran a compression test prior to pulling with everything around 100 with #1 coming in at 75...No wonder the bus was extremely gutless on any incline. So instead of swapping out a new top end...I'm in the market for a rebuilt longblock...and building everything up from there. Whose building solid long blocks that won't break the bank? Being my daily driver...I hoping to slap something back in there this week. There are a few used runners on local craigslist....in the $750-950 range....but once again I'd be subjecting myself to yet another mystery motor...
Thanks for the help! |
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FeelthySanchez
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Joined: February 03, 2011
Posts: 1349
Location: Now is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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Here's a typical 1600 rebuild, nearby in Colma for $1500 exch: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1699010
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| modok wrote: |
| I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing. |
| Ryan Tucker wrote: |
| Enough clue..Whats that mean? |
| OldIronSpine wrote: |
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are. |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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stop cheaping out and just do it.
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slowroller70
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2018
Posts: 11
Location: SF Bay
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:39 am Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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| Thanks for the link @ FeelthySanchez...Deposit down on a longblock....picking it up on Monday! |
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FeelthySanchez
Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2011
Posts: 1349
Location: Now is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:56 am Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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No prob, mate. Glad to help.
Tell him that you may keep my commission
_________________
| modok wrote: |
| I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing. |
| Ryan Tucker wrote: |
| Enough clue..Whats that mean? |
| OldIronSpine wrote: |
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are. |
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slowroller70
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2018
Posts: 11
Location: SF Bay
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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Finally...we are reinstalled and running! Currently the break in phase...first run and oil dump complete. Adjusted valves this morning and reset 009 timing to 30 degrees total advance. Now chasing down little vacuum leak chirps!!!!!! A few things I’m noticing and not sure of...
* New throw out bearing but I need to replace the old clutch cable with new. I’m noticing the clutch definitely needs adjustment but when clutch fully pushed to the floor...I hear a rubbing sound...I’m assuming this will go away once I install a new clutch cable and adjust properly? Correct?
* Also noticing when I start the engine it feels like the starter and fly wheel get locked up and then eventually turns the motor over and starts. This was never an issue with my last setup...running a hot start relay with Petronix....not sure the problem here...Perhaps my Battery a little run down from not being used for the past 2 weeks? I also need to check if my charging system is working...new generator and volt regulator...
Thanks for the help! |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12728
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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A few thoughts...
About the clutch vibration, how much free-play do you have? Pressure plates that are over-stressed (cable adjusted too tight/not enough freeplay) can protest like that. Is your transaxle and clutch system stock for 1970? They were the last year of the self-centering throw-out bearing setup with the collar on the pressure plate. These can take a few drives for the bearing to find its perfect center. In 1971, a self-centering bearing guide was inteoduced, and the problem was eliminated. (Though it’s not usually a problem after the first few drives.)
New engines are full of friction from tight-fitting parts, assuming your builder did a good job.  New engine’s are harder on the starter for that reason, and may crank slowly for the first week or so. A fresh battery charge from an external charger should rule out a charging system issue, though clean and shiny grounds and terminal connections are a prerequisite.
Good luck,
Robbie
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outcaststudios
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Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 FrankenBlock w/ Dual Port Heads Question??? |
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one day id like to cast new heads for my bus. i have an aluminum foundry and yet im always casting other peoples stuff! the baker ,the shoemaker etc. good luck.
(i also had a 1300 in my late 69 that i replaced)
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