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gintaras Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012 Posts: 523 Location: Louisville
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:09 pm Post subject: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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Readings are as follows..
Be aware, this is for the CA coil, my numbers are way different than others..
15 and 1
.8 just a little high.. range in the book is .55 - .75
4 and 1
3.09 normal
4 and 15
3.09 normal..
About 9 months ago, I was driving and lost the head of a valve, this caused the spark plug to get smashed and grounded out the electrode.
Fast forward to today, new heads, rebuilt engine.. I still have NO SPARK..
If I put the inductive pickup end of a timing light on the coil wire, I get SOME intermittent pulses, but not steady..
I get NONE when the pickup is attached to number 1 spark plug wire, ZERO
I verified 13+ volts at terminal 15 with the key on the ON position..
I changed the distributor to a known, working one..
I tested the coil as listed above, and followed the Bentley to test the ICM, and it tested good per the book.
I installed a new rotor, but I also tried with the old rotor
Is there anything else that I may be missing? What could cause a no-spark/no output from the distributor? _________________ 1979 Deluxe Westy in Mexico Beige |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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make sure the distributor is locked in place - meaning that it is all the way down and that the shaft spins when the engine is turned. If could be that the drive dog is not seated so it is not properly spinning. I don't think grounding the plug would have killed the coil unless you left the key on for a long time while you were troubleshooting it. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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gintaras Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012 Posts: 523 Location: Louisville
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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Yes, it is fully seated.
I was hoping that there was something else that i could look at that perhaps I am missing. _________________ 1979 Deluxe Westy in Mexico Beige |
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gintaras Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012 Posts: 523 Location: Louisville
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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What causes the coil output to pulse? is it a crank position sensor? I always thought that the center coil wire was always energized, but I guess not since mine pulses. How do the pulses from the coil happen to line up with the rotor meeting the plug terminals? _________________ 1979 Deluxe Westy in Mexico Beige |
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TomWesty Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 3482 Location: Wyoming,USA
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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gintaras wrote: |
What causes the coil output to pulse? is it a crank position sensor? I always thought that the center coil wire was always energized, but I guess not since mine pulses. How do the pulses from the coil happen to line up with the rotor meeting the plug terminals? |
Not sure about this distributor, but I believe points opening and closing switch a 12 v pulse to the primary of the coil which in the real world of electronics is a step-up pulse transformer. The coil steps that 12v pulse up to around 30kv. This happens with the frequency of the dizzy lobes opening/closing the points. I would imagine ( correct me if I’m wrong) that the lobes are also in time with the rotor position so that the high voltage pulse is “Distributed” to the spark plugs. I hope Telford fact-checks this, he’s sharper on this electronics stuff than I am. _________________ If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music!
Last edited by TomWesty on Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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if it is the 1979 California system you have a hall effect sensor that triggers a pulse to the coil. See page 33 of the FI manual in technical. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/afc_f...Manual.pdf _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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There is a test for the Hall sender in the Bentley, but if you swapped distributors this should have eliminated the Hall as being the problem. Did you try a different rotor and cap when you tried the different dizzy?
I would suggest checking one more time that the distributor shaft is properly seated in the slot in the drive.
Have you tried a different set of plug wires? |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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Wildthings wrote: |
There is a test for the Hall sender in the Bentley, but if you swapped distributors this should have eliminated the Hall as being the problem. Did you try a different rotor and cap when you tried the different dizzy?
I would suggest checking one more time that the distributor shaft is properly seated in the slot in the drive.
Have you tried a different set of plug wires? |
or the plug wires could be out of sequence _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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gintaras Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012 Posts: 523 Location: Louisville
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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Ran all of those tests, everything checks out. I verified the sequence as well.
I have not yet tried a different set of wires, that's next.
I can only work on this on Saturdays, and 90 minutes from home, so I had to wrap it up for the weekend. I'll order wires and get them delivered by Saturday.
Thanks _________________ 1979 Deluxe Westy in Mexico Beige |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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have you done other tests like check fuel pressure, put a teaspoon of fuel in the S-boot or plenum to see if it fires? _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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ChrisFred Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2014 Posts: 322 Location: Boulder, CO
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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Are you sure you are not getting spark? Silly question, but test if all plugs or one is just not firing.
When was the last tune-up that adjusted timing and checked dizzy points? |
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gintaras Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012 Posts: 523 Location: Louisville
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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SGKent wrote: |
have you done other tests like check fuel pressure, put a teaspoon of fuel in the S-boot or plenum to see if it fires? |
No, but I smell fuel when I'm cranking the engine. _________________ 1979 Deluxe Westy in Mexico Beige |
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gintaras Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012 Posts: 523 Location: Louisville
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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ChrisFred wrote: |
Are you sure you are not getting spark? Silly question, but test if all plugs or one is just not firing.
When was the last tune-up that adjusted timing and checked dizzy points? |
I'm only sure because I get no strobe from the timing light, this is a new build, new plugs, etc.. It's frustrating because I spent so much time getting it all back together, hooked up all the wires properly, and I'm just down to not getting spark.. I just need these plugs to spark, and I'm sure it will fire up.. _________________ 1979 Deluxe Westy in Mexico Beige |
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ChrisFred Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2014 Posts: 322 Location: Boulder, CO
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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gintaras wrote: |
ChrisFred wrote: |
Are you sure you are not getting spark? Silly question, but test if all plugs or one is just not firing.
When was the last tune-up that adjusted timing and checked dizzy points? |
I'm only sure because I get no strobe from the timing light, this is a new build, new plugs, etc.. It's frustrating because I spent so much time getting it all back together, hooked up all the wires properly, and I'm just down to not getting spark.. I just need these plugs to spark, and I'm sure it will fire up.. |
Have you checked the spacing on the plugs and adjust accordingly? |
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gintaras Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012 Posts: 523 Location: Louisville
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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ChrisFred wrote: |
gintaras wrote: |
ChrisFred wrote: |
Are you sure you are not getting spark? Silly question, but test if all plugs or one is just not firing.
When was the last tune-up that adjusted timing and checked dizzy points? |
I'm only sure because I get no strobe from the timing light, this is a new build, new plugs, etc.. It's frustrating because I spent so much time getting it all back together, hooked up all the wires properly, and I'm just down to not getting spark.. I just need these plugs to spark, and I'm sure it will fire up.. |
Have you checked the spacing on the plugs and adjust accordingly? |
Yes, first thing I did when I took them out of the box. _________________ 1979 Deluxe Westy in Mexico Beige |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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I think you need to test the ignition module. I think it describes how to do it in the Bentley manual for Vanagons. I will poke around it at home tonight to see if it is indeed in there.
That cable that goes between the distributor and the ignition module really likes to chafe IIRC.
Order up the Bosch noid light to confirm that the injectors are firing and leave the fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail as you sort this out. |
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gintaras Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012 Posts: 523 Location: Louisville
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Did I fry my CA coil? |
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Well, I don't know what fixed it, maybe I was just being impatient at first.
I ended up replacing the plug wires, even though they were only about a year old.
What really helped me though, is a new battery cable and starter. I guess the old starter was tired, because with the new starter and battery cable, I was able to get a whole lot more cranking out of my battery, which would previously die after 10 seconds of cranking.
So, in short, it's running, and running well. I have doubts as to whether the builder replaced my lifters or not, because the engine sounds exactly the same as it's always had, with a ticking lifter. I'll take that up with him though, and there's not much I can do about it unless I want to pull the engine again..
BTW, my CHT is reading 380, only going about 40 MPH within a 5 mile radius.. I hope it's not already running hot, timing is set correctly, hopefully a valve adjustment (they are hydraulic) will make a difference. _________________ 1979 Deluxe Westy in Mexico Beige |
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