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Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice
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vwrhodie
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

Hello VW people. I have not owned a VW in 4 or 5 years and A LOT has happened in that time so here I am with my new (and gorgeous) Vanagon... and a new husband... and a new baby (1 year old) so my days of working on my car are very different nowadays.

I purchased this van a few months back and immediately took it to a local VW shop for a thorough check-up and any recommendations from the owner. "Everything is in tip top shape" YEAH RIGHT. Fast forward and I filled her up (with Costco 91) until pump clicked when it was full (but still spilled a little bit of gasoline, this was red flag #1). Only second time I have ever filled her up completely. Smelled slight gasoline rest of the day but ignored it. Next day I warm her up, start driving down the alley and I smell it STRONG so I pull up to first red light and I am already googling 'vanagon smells like gasoline' when a dude is waving me down on the sidewalk yelling for me to pull over because I have such a bad leak. Long story short, I pull over and my van is leaking gasoline all over. coming from rear and leaking out in more than a few places but looked like all in one horizontal line where the engine is. Like a waterfall but not as consistent in all areas. I drove back home (around the corner). Now, where I would appreciate your advice:

*side note: I am a total idiot about this stuff, forgive the dumb questions and clueless-ness. I worked on my '81 VW Rabbit by myself, never took it to a mechanic in over two years of owning it... soooo... there is hope right?

1) Looking at photos of my engine, there is one tube that is badly cracked but I am not able to figure out what the hell it is. Ive searched tons of forums here! I am almost certain it is not related to a fuel line but I could be wrong... I hardly know much about this Vanagon, I am trying to learn and do my own repairs. Can anyone tell me if this has something to do with my gasoline leak and what this part is? I want to replace this tube.


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2) I ordered a fuel line replacement kit from vanagon.com but it didnt come with fuel rails. i am about to order them from gowesty but looking at these photos, can you tell how worn these are? what can you tell me about these? the hoses coming from them have some type of sleeves on them... are these the old rubber hoses? like I stated, there was an engine rebuild 12 years ago. This just looks odd to me...


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I appreciate any and all information you guys can give me on my engine. I was told this car was in tip top shape and uhh... after this scary leak, I believe that was a load of crap. I dont want my van catching fire with my 1 year old and I in it! I am ready to replace fuel lines once parts come in. My husband has zero faith in me and thinks I am crazy. Thank you guys for all of your help/advice/input. Any tips on how not to F up this fuel line job? Do you guys recommend I just take it to a (ripoff)mechanic here in Long Beach, CA for new steel coolant pipes and an aluminum fuel tank put in as well? I feel like the ethanol in the gasoline has jacked my engine up... once again, I dont know sh**! I appreciate you all! I hope I followed all the guidelines with this post... I talk a lot! Thanks!
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YosemiteBound
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

These guys here will be able to help you identify things. I will not. I am new myself. But, as a husband who just purchased an 85 to travel with my wife and our one and a half year old toddler - good call replacing all of the fuel lines.

That's a job you can do on your own. You just need a Bentley manual. Do you have one of those? That will really identify everything for you... and help immensely with any repair.

Along with the fuel lines I recommend dropping your tank and resealing that. And everything involved with that. You can get kits from VC and GW etc. I had mine pouring gas out after I got it and had to do that job immediately. It's fairly common.

Good news is with old fuel lines and and old tank you're still in good shape. That's all simple, normal stuff. But stuff that needs to be done immediately. Have fun getting to know your new ride and ya gotta post pics! Of the whole thing, I mean Wink Changing your fuel lines and posting pics seems to be the number one and two rules around here.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

Yeah, those fuel lines are cooked. Replace those.

The fuel rails can't hurt, but the stock ones are surprisingly sturdy IME. You could try just replacing the fuel lines and then see if you still have leaks, gas smell- figure this out while idling, engine cover off, somebody else in driver's seat to turn the van off, fire extinguisher rated for gas fires nearby.

If your rails leak, replace them.

If you have no visible leaks and you still have a gas smell on fill up, then buy the tank re-seal kit. El-recommendo buying the fuel expansion tank grommets too and doing that at same time.

Your first pictured hose has nothing to do with fuel, but is part of your oil breather system. If it's cracked, you have a vacuum leak (I think). You can replace that with any automotive hose- heater, fuel, coolant, doesn't matter- of the same diameter.

Have fun!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

Like I told the last guy Buy a fire extinguisher.


Quote:
These guys here will be able to help you identify things. I will not. I am new myself. But, as a husband who just purchased an 85 to travel with my wife and our one and a half year old toddler - good call replacing all of the fuel lines.


This has me laughing hysterically and I hope you and your wife and toddler are having a blast in your vanagon. your gonna fit in well.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

Sounds like many of us you have a leaky fuel tank. When you fill up full there are two grommets and a crossover tube on top of the fuel tank. The rubber gardens and shrinks over time and on max fill will leak. I have never read about this being a cause of a van fire, but is alarming. Usually fires are from cracked fuel lines, You can see cracks in your lines to the injector. Replace all your lines now.

For the fuel tank reseal, the right mechanic can do this easily. I had Kevin Mayor do mine in philly. I watched and learned. He jacked the van, drained it and sealed in under 30 minutes and had the van back off the jack. This is sometimes seen as a big project. Do some reading and you’ll find some tricks to get it done quickly like he did...

Read up on resealing your fuel tank and you’ll see picture of a leaky tank and what to look for that will help you identify this
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

Hey, good for you that you want to get in there and take care of things, welcome.

Benny up in Canada has a website of stuff like this that he's detailed nicely.

http://www.benplace.com/fuel_line.htm

He also has a page in there somewhere with every component marked and identified.
Benny is a good guy.

I encourage you to replace all the way including the short stubs at the injectors, these hoses degrade from the inside and can be badly cracked even if they look fine on the outside.
You really don't want a fuel leak from the injector area with hot exhaust pipes right below.

It's very likely your gas leak is coming from the front, at the gas tank.

It's common for the crossover tubes to be detached or the seal at the level indicator or from the overflow tanks on each side, etc.

Not sure if I would go for a tank reseal.
While the tank is out clean it out and see how much crap is in there.
If it isn't rusty I'd say good to go.
I'd be concerned about a sealing job gumming up the internal filtering system.
Not to rain on anyone else's opinion, but if needed, a new tank isn't much more.

Don't be afraid of the tank job on your own, (and the fuel lines) its very straightforward.

When I replaced my tank I used blocks of wood to keep it propped up in place while reattaching.
There is a bit of a challenge when hooking up the crossover tubes, it helps to be patient and have skinny hands. Cool

Also, if you don't know, there's a search function and many jobs just like this have been documented with pics to help folks.
I don't think you'll find many things like this that you won't be able to handle yourself.
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vwrhodie
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

levi wrote:

It's very likely your gas leak is coming from the front, at the gas tank


I watched gas drip/pour out from the rear, directly underneath the engine so I doubt its the tank but I def learned not to fill her up completely and i may still drop the tank to look for any rust/crap inside, and replace grommets. Thanks for the advice!
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vwrhodie
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

YosemiteBound wrote:
These guys here will be able to help you identify things. I will not. I am new myself. But, as a husband who just purchased an 85 to travel with my wife and our one and a half year old toddler - good call replacing all of the fuel lines.

That's a job you can do on your own. You just need a Bentley manual. Do you have one of those? That will really identify everything for you... and help immensely with any repair.

Along with the fuel lines I recommend dropping your tank and resealing that. And everything involved with that. You can get kits from VC and GW etc. I had mine pouring gas out after I got it and had to do that job immediately. It's fairly common.

Good news is with old fuel lines and and old tank you're still in good shape. That's all simple, normal stuff. But stuff that needs to be done immediately. Have fun getting to know your new ride and ya gotta post pics! Of the whole thing, I mean Wink Changing your fuel lines and posting pics seems to be the number one and two rules around here.


Husband doesnt support me on this at all (he knows jack about cars and thinks everything needs to be done at the mechanic) so he is about to get his mind blown, lol. I will try to document for the next guy! Going to pick up a Bentley manual asap. I heard a guy mention it in a DIY vanagon repair vid and I thought he was joking. Any help is needed over here! I hope you and your fam get many miles out of your van! Mine is a white 7-seater GL, we took it to the drive in a few months back, folded down the backseat and watched 'Meg'. It was dreamy. Thank you for your advice!
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vwrhodie
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

mikemtnbike wrote:

Your first pictured hose has nothing to do with fuel, but is part of your oil breather system. If it's cracked, you have a vacuum leak (I think). You can replace that with any automotive hose- heater, fuel, coolant, doesn't matter- of the same diameter.

Have fun!


THANK YOU! I want to replace that asap. The thing seems hard as hell. Should I force/cut it off and take it into ACE hardware for reference to size? Any prepping I need to do before I remove it? That may be a dumb question... I gotta ask!

The plan:
*fuel lines
*drop tank and check it out
*re-seal
*replace rails

Unless of course, my issue stops at the fuel lines (please Lord!)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

AZ Landshaper wrote:
Like I told the last guy Buy a fire extinguisher.


Great advice. I had bought a 'garage' extinguisher about an hour before I posted this. Thank you!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

Marshj wrote:

Read up on resealing your fuel tank and you’ll see picture of a leaky tank and what to look for that will help you identify this


Yes it seems common practice not to fill our vans to max capacity. Seen it mentioned a lot on the Samba. I did a half ass check on the tank yesterday. Looked at one or maybe two lines and the grommets were fully in tact right wherever they should be, lines looked fine. Do you think I would still see gasoline dripping from beneath the engine if my tank leaked? Is that a possibility? Thank you!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

The breather tower, which is the plastic part mounted to the engine and your hose connects to it, will have an o-ring sealing the tower to the engine.
If your hose looks that bad and is rock hard, chances are the o-ring is breaking and leaking vacuum on you.
GoWesty will sell you the o- ring and upgraded breather hose which survives crankcase vapors and last. Heater hose WILL not last long exposed to oil vapor, it’s not rated for it, not it’s fault...l Very Happy

You can easily remove the breather tower, 4 nuts with washers , 10 mm, o-ring sits in a groove underneath.
GoWesty leaves the supplied hose a bit long so you can cut it to your correct length.
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vwrhodie
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

levi wrote:
Hey, good for you that you want to get in there and take care of things, welcome.

Benny up in Canada has a website of stuff like this that he's detailed nicely.

http://www.benplace.com/fuel_line.htm

He also has a page in there somewhere with every component marked and identified.
Benny is a good guy.

I encourage you to replace all the way including the short stubs at the injectors, these hoses degrade from the inside and can be badly cracked even if they look fine on the outside.
You really don't want a fuel leak from the injector area with hot exhaust pipes right below.

It's very likely your gas leak is coming from the front, at the gas tank.

It's common for the crossover tubes to be detached or the seal at the level indicator or from the overflow tanks on each side, etc.

Not sure if I would go for a tank reseal.
While the tank is out clean it out and see how much crap is in there.
If it isn't rusty I'd say good to go.
I'd be concerned about a sealing job gumming up the internal filtering system.
Not to rain on anyone else's opinion, but if needed, a new tank isn't much more.

Don't be afraid of the tank job on your own, (and the fuel lines) its very straightforward.

When I replaced my tank I used blocks of wood to keep it propped up in place while reattaching.
There is a bit of a challenge when hooking up the crossover tubes, it helps to be patient and have skinny hands. Cool

Also, if you don't know, there's a search function and many jobs just like this have been documented with pics to help folks.
I don't think you'll find many things like this that you won't be able to handle yourself.


Hey I will keep that site bookmarked in case I am looking at an unknown part again. Thank you for the encouragement and tips on dropping and propping and re-sealing! Much appreciated.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

levi wrote:

I encourage you to replace all the way including the short stubs at the injectors


Almost forgot to ask: are you recommending I replace fuel lines AND rails? Do you happen to know if those short stubs come in the vanagon.com fuel line kit? Or do you know where I can get em? Thanks!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

You areon the wrong coast for me to help but look at the vanalert
app in my sig and see if there is a Rescue Squad member in your area that can visit and give you some help. It is really nice to be able to have someone show you what is going on.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

jlrftype7 wrote:
The breather tower, which is the plastic part mounted to the engine and your hose connects to it, will have an o-ring sealing the tower to the engine.
If your hose looks that bad and is rock hard, chances are the o-ring is breaking and leaking vacuum on you.
GoWesty will sell you the o- ring and upgraded breather hose which survives crankcase vapors and last. Heater hose WILL not last long exposed to oil vapor, it’s not rated for it, not it’s fault...l Very Happy

You can easily remove the breather tower, 4 nuts with washers , 10 mm, o-ring sits in a groove underneath.
GoWesty leaves the supplied hose a bit long so you can cut it to your correct length.


Is the breather tower the thing with a black cap on it? They usually have numbers printed on em? Are you answering my question on the photo with the red drawings on it? That hose has a huge crack in it! Not to mention its being completely smashed by two other hoses. Sorry, i'm a lil confused. Hope I understood you.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
You areon the wrong coast for me to help but look at the vanalert
app in my sig and see if there is a Rescue Squad member in your area that can visit and give you some help. It is really nice to be able to have someone show you what is going on.


WAT. I just downloaded the app but cannot seem to find where to search for a rescue squad member. I only see rescue squad submission. If someone could just shadow me I would be forever thankful! I can't take this thing to any shops around here. These people are wackos. I bought this machinery and I will get to know it buuuuuuuut I realllllllly do need the help! Ha! Thank you! This app is a God send!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

Open the vanalert app. Tap on the three bar icon in upper left. Go to Vanagon Repair Shops. Anyone listed with RS is a Rescue Squad member. Not sure why the app is so obtuse on finding the Rescue Squad.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

There is another gas connection that is in the engine bay.

It's hidden from your view.
In your first pic, in the upper right corner are 2 coolant lines (1-1/4" 1-1/2" I don't know)

Hidden behind those 2 coolant lines is a plastic connector.

The connector is mounted to the firewall, and connects the fuel line from the front of the van to the fuel line in the engine compartment.

It's made out of plastic, and plastic gets brittle after 30 years.
Probably best to replace or do like a lot of folks and eliminate it with a continuous fuel line.

If you eliminate it make sure you get a rubber grommet to run the fuel line through to protect it from chaffing against the metal firewall.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:13 am    Post subject: Re: Newly Acquired '85 VanagonGL, almost caught fire, need advice Reply with quote

levi wrote:
There is another gas connection that is in the engine bay.

It's hidden from your view.
In your first pic, in the upper right corner are 2 coolant lines (1-1/4" 1-1/2" I don't know)

Hidden behind those 2 coolant lines is a plastic connector.

The connector is mounted to the firewall, and connects the fuel line from the front of the van to the fuel line in the engine compartment.

It's made out of plastic, and plastic gets brittle after 30 years.
Probably best to replace or do like a lot of folks and eliminate it with a continuous fuel line.

If you eliminate it make sure you get a rubber grommet to run the fuel line through to protect it from chaffing against the metal firewall.


Thanks! Putting this on my to-do list. As soon as the fuel line kit comes in, I've got a lot of work to do but with everyone's help I am feeling good about this. I just hope i don't run into an issue within the first 10 minutes... gotta love when that happens. Thanks for clarifying!
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