Battery size for a '67 Bug other than Group 42?

[nickpace]

I’ve acquired a neglected but lovely ’67 convertible from a friend on a long term use agreement. I have the garage space and VW knowhow, he doesn’t and his wife wants to get rid of what she thinks is a smelly, oily wreck. Since he doesn’t want to lose ownership, it’s now mine to use and maintain for the foreseeable future until he’s ready to sell. Fine with me. I’ve put the mechanics back into shape and it now runs great, but the battery won’t hold a charge.

So I started looking around for a replacement battery. To my surprise, all of my choices are relatively expensive. Interstate, which is Costco’s supplier these days, says that the right model is the MT-42 (Group Size 42) for $130. Auto Zone says that the right battery is a Duralast 42-DL, going for $130. Pep Boy recommends a ValueGrade Car Battery Group Size 42 for $129. O’Reilly wants to sell me a Premium Super Start Premium Group Size 42 Top Post Battery for, you guessed it, $130.

That’s silly. I just recently bought a 640 CCA Interstate battery for my 1971 VW Bus for $72 (size doesn’t matter in a Bus) and an 800 CCA Interstate battery at Costco for my 93 Caddy Deville for $92. How could the relatively small battery for a Bug, a car that seemingly needs no more that a good shove to start it, cost more than these more powerful batteries?

So my question to you folks is whether you’ve used batteries with sizes other than for group size 42 under the rear seats of Bugs of this era? I don’t need recommendations on favorite brands of batteries; I care not one whit about whether one company makes a better battery than another. What I need to know is what group sizes other than 42 have been successfully used. More sizes means more competition, and hopefully I can go back to the Auto Zones\Pep Boys\etc. of the world to see if I can find something less expensive than $130.

Thanks,

Nick in Palm Springs

[Cusser]

Batteries cost a fortune these days. Something like 85% of the batteries sold in USA are made by Johnson Controls.

I use the 42 battery from Autozone.

VERY important to secure the battery to the pan, to preserve lifetime of the battery.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[[email protected]]

[Q-Dog]

A group 42 is the shortest lead acid automotive battery you will find, period. There are a couple others that are close, but they won't fit the stock mounts and the terminals don't have covers that keep the seat springs from arcing on the terminals. You will have to fabricate your own mounts for anything other than group 42.

There are some shorter AGM and "racing" batteries on the market, but they are more expensive than the batteries you are quoting.
_________________
Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle

[Sharp64]

Personally I’d spring for an Optima or other “drycell”. I out an Odyssey PC 925 in my 60 and it’s a great fit. Small and compact.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[glutamodo]

I've used a 41 in my Baja before, that's the same battery my Golf uses, it's longer but still short. (also, it's higher capacity is rather more than what most Bugs would ever need)

Now in my 62, I changed long ago to a size 26R, which is less common than it used to be. it is a little taller than the 42 but the terminals are in the right places.
_________________
Andy T.

"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!"

[VOLKSWAGNUT]

Ahh yes cheap ass VW owners.. How I know the well.

I've always used a U1R lawn mower battery in my Dune Buggy.
1600 stock single port and generator..has more lights than a stock VW plus a radio and amp..

I've only replaced 1 in 10 years.. but really it was only because I needed one for the mower one spring day.. so pulled it out.. mowed the weeds.. and bought fresh one for Coppertub....

I disconnect it in the winter and charge it once or twice a month..

It's not the battery choice for everybody.. but.. you can pull it out.. and use it your mower too .. and take it inside the house in the winter..

You can either make/use post adapters for the battery terminals. or put eyelets on the cable.


Charging a battery when not in use is vital to its longevity.



.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited

[bluebus86]

when buying a battery, buy the freshest one, they should have the date of manufacture tagged on them. I have seen some six months old sold as new. If that battery was not maintained regularly and frequently on a charger, it is damaged and will suffer a shorter life even if you treat it well. So look for the newest build date. Since Bug batteries may have a low turn over thru the retail chain, this is specially important!

Bug On with a fresh battery!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[davidw99]

I have a Duracell Group 58 from Batteries Plus Bulbs. Same specs as the group 42 but no holes for the battery terminal protector. I have other protectors over the terminals. Can't remember what it cost but it was a bit cheaper than the Group 42.
_________________
Dave

'73 Saturn Yellow Sports Bug that has undergone a full pan off restoration. "Herbert IV."

'67 Sedan. "Bellamy." Currently being "refreshed" and recently repainted.

[KTPhil]

FWIW... I can't tell you the group size, but I put a larger battery in my 6V '65 for several reasons, and had to improvise a battery cover (plywood and a tire inner tube) to avoid shorting on the seat springs.

[glutamodo]

I think a lot of people have improvised that sort of thing over the years. Sheets of plastic, chunks of old tire inner tubes, plywood... I've seen many.

I don't know if it would prevent battery shorting, but to prevent "horse-hair precipitation" I've gone and sprayed rubberized undercoating on the underside of my bugs' back seats. It is to seal in the padding, but you can't do it without coating the metal springs as well.
_________________
Andy T.

"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!"

[bluebus86]

A friends Bug caught fire cause of the battery connecting to the seat metal! seat was yanked out on fire, seat bottom shot, a bit of damage to other interior bits, but the important thing, the Bug lived! But only do to quick action after the fire started. Other Bugs have not been so lucky, total losses.

Always make sure the battery posts are safely isolated The springs bend down closer to the terminal when weight is placed on the seat. So even if you think there is plenty of space above the terminal, get it insulated well, make sure the insulator can withstand vibration, abrasion, and pressure of a steel seat spring rubbing with a good deal of force on the Terminal.
A plastic bag, soft vinyl sheet, old shower curtain, bubble pack or cardboard, etc..won't cut it for long! Some strong plastic gallon bottles could be cut up as a source of tough plastic sheet, like a Prestone bottle, thats pretty tough, more than one layer could be used Milk,or bleach bottles usually are not as tough as a Prestone bottle. 5 qt oil bottles also are tough. Some pain thinners are also sold in tough plastc gallons, as are some clothes detergents.

Rubber floor mats are another good source of tough plastic.

Lots of plastic these days, and to think just 100 years ago almost none of this plastic existed. Boy how things change, heck 100 years ago, horses still provided much transport.
No Bugs back then, the past must have sucked

Also speaking of fire safety, see link below on safety wires and engine fires!



Bug On, Fully Charged!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[andk5591]

Even with my shop discount, I am paying over $100 for most type 42 batteries. It is what it is....
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[bluebus86]

[nickpace]

Good advice from you all. It's very helpful to know that the Group 42 prices I've run into of late aren't aberrations but in fact represent current market prices. I was hoping for something along the lines of "nobody buys a group 42; waaaay overpriced. Essentially the exact same sized battery can be had for a fraction of a group 42 simply by asking your FLAPS for a battery that will fit a 1999 Geo Metro." Alas, that didn't happen. My hope was based on the fact that group 42 is the recommended size for my 1971 Bus, but I'm pretty sure I could get a battery intended for a John Deere 9620R tractor into the right side of my engine compartment and still have enough room for a couple backup bottles of Castrol tucked away here and there. It sounds like the space underneath the backseat of a '67 Bug is too tight to have any obvious options that don’t have fire and electrical implications.

Quick response to the poster who expressed surprise that I'd worry about spending $130 or so for a Bug that has a current market value that would swamp the size of such an expenditure. The thing to remember is that the Bug isn't for sale now and it won't be until either my friend or I kick the bucket. If every part or service decision I made was based on a presumption that I could get the money back when my Bus or this Bug is sold to the highest bidder, my vehicles would have gold-plated fan pulleys, ostrich skin steering wheel covers, and the finest Turkish carpets lining the floorboards. But Type I and II VWs are practical machines, and I try to be practical as well. If I can buy a battery for $80 that works as well as one that’s $130, I’m a very happy camper.


Nick in Palm Springs

[runamoc]

My first battery was a 12v forklift battery that measured 10" X 10" X 2' mounted in the rear 'luggage' compartment under the rear window. Had 1" strain relief conduit fittings drilled in the bottom of the shelf with 2/0 welding cable passing thru to the starter and transaxle. It had max reserve power, to say the least.
_________________
Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires

[[email protected]]

[runamoc]

[Q-Dog]

Batteries Plus lists a Group 42 for about $115 or so, and I just saw they have 10% off at the moment. I am sure pricing varies by location.

I bought one of these a few years ago (they were only place in town that had one in stock and I couldn't wait). Maybe they are better today, BUT, the top of the battery is always damp. I wipe it down and in a couple of weeks the top is damp again.

I used this one in my buggy and I got good service out of it, but I would have probably replaced it long ago had I put in under the seat in one of the cars and found it always wet.
_________________
Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle

[60BeetleBill]

I don't know if it would prevent battery shorting, but to prevent "horse-hair precipitation" I've gone and sprayed rubberized undercoating on the underside of my bugs' back seats. It is to seal in the padding, but you can't do it without coating the metal springs as well.[/quote]

The hair collecting under the back seat drives me crazy also. To remedy this I've taken an old sheet and hot glue gunned it to the bottom side and trimmed the excess. You can't see it at all when the seat bottom is installed. Works great!